Doctor Who characters and their wee baby forms
rose tyler
There are probably lots of valid reasons to hate, or at least dislike, Rose Tyler. One of the most valid is probably “I just don’t like her”, because personal preference is a thing that exists and saying “I just don’t like her” doesn’t contain any bullshit sexist or classist reasons for it. So it’s not that everyone needs to love Rose. If you just don’t enjoy her storyline or her personality, hey, it happens.
There are, however, a lot of really invalid reasons to hate her. Such as:
- “She’s useless!” OR sometimes “She was great in s1 but useless in s2!” No she’s not. There are about 30 episodes to contradict this. And her entire series 2 character arc is about her becoming more of a competent hero, not less of one.
- “She’s the reason the universes were collapsing in Journey’s End!” No she’s not. This is never suggested in the entire s4 arc. You’re selectively taking bits and pieces of the text while ignoring others in order to paint Rose as the villain.
- “Her clothes are ugly and I hate her stupid horse face.” Fuck you.
- “She isn’t good enough for the Doctor! It’s unrealistic that the Doctor would love an uneducated shop girl.” Sorry, this right here is some classist bullshit. Love isn’t based on someone’s CV. Being working class and not having a high level of formal education does not mean Rose is unworthy of love, or (perhaps more specifically) unworthy of love from her “betters”. What the fuck? Stop.
- “She was obsessed with the Doctor.” This argument is invalid for a couple of reasons. First, it’s intentionally downplaying/demonizing Rose’s love as “obsession” — and also implying that it was entirely one-sided, as if Rose is latched onto his leg with her claws while he tries to shake her off. That’s a blatant misreading of the text that also has sexist undertones, because if Rose was “obsessed” with the Doctor, the Doctor was sure as fuck even more “obsessed” with Rose. What makes her “obsessed”, anyway? Wanting to be with him? By this same reasoning, pretty much all the companions are “obsessed” with him. Donna wanted to be with him forever, too.
- “She was so mean to poor Mickey! He was such a good boyfriend and she treated him so badly!” It’s really the second part of this that kills it for me. Yes, Rose’s behaviour towards Mickey tended towards selfishness. But you know what? So did his. The Mickey/Rose relationship was dysfunctional and doomed from the off, even if it had once been a sweet and simple teenage thing. Mickey, to put it simply, is not the “perfect boyfriend” that fandom often wants to believe he was. Mickey was selfish, too, desperately clinging to his relationship with Rose and trying to hold her back even after it became clear that it wasn’t working and clear that she wanted someone else. Should Rose have ended it sooner, cleaner? Sure. But Mickey could have, as well. Mickey even starts dating another woman, but is eager to “get a hotel room” as soon as Rose comes home. PERFECT BOYFRIEND, right?But I think the most telling moment in the Mickey/Rose relationship is in the Slitheen two-parter in s1. Mickey is invited to come along on the TARDIS with them, and he turns it down because he’s scared — and then he has the Doctor lie so that he can save face, and continues to guilt-trip Rose over her decision to keep travelling. Sorry, Mickey, but no. If Mickey were really the perfect boyfriend everyone says he is, he could have either a) gone along for at least one trip to see if he could be with Rose in the new direction her life was taking, or b) declined by admitting it wasn’t a lifestyle for him and wishing Rose luck. Instead he chose to lie and guilt-trip her out of pursuing something she’d come to love. That’s pretty shitty.
So no, Rose didn’t treat him well. But Mickey is a grown-ass man guilty of many of the same things, so hold them both accountable. Painting Rose as the villain and Mickey as the helpless innocent is, frankly, kind of sexist.
- “She’s mean to her mum! How could she leave her alone like that?” Okay, I love Jackie, and definitely one of the intentional tragedies in DW are characters like Jackie, “the ones who get left behind”. Jackie is lonely and that’s sad. But Rose is nineteen years old; she’s growing up and she’s going to leave home. And it’s not as though Rose disappears with the Doctor, never to return. The first 12-month gap is a mistake (and exclusively the Doctor’s fault), and from then on Jackie knows where her daughter is, can call her, and the Doctor and Rose come around for visits sometimes. It’s a bit like taking a job on the other side of the world — is it sad they don’t get to see each other as often anymore? Sure. But Rose has no obligation to stay at home in a life she doesn’t enjoy just because her mother wants her to. Which leads me to…
- “She had everything she wanted in Doomsday and she still wasn’t happy with it!” No, she had everything you think she should’ve wanted in Doomsday. Rose NEVER says she’d be happy in that alternate universe with her mum and dad, or that this is what she wants. She says literally the exact opposite in “Doomsday”, telling Jackie that she wants Jackie and Pete to be happy together but that her life is with the Doctor now. Deciding that because she has money, parents and an ex-boyfriend she should just sit back and be satisfied with something she did not want in the first place is gross, and hey, also kind of sexist. (Are you seeing the pattern here?) This argument says that Rose should just settle for losing the man and the lifestyle she loves because, hey, she has her parents and money and an ex-boyfriend. What? No. No one gets to decide what’s “good enough” for Rose except Rose, and she very plainly did not want the ending she gets in “Doomsday”.
I could go on, honestly, because there are so many (“Rose is the reason Ten went crazy in Waters of Mars!” …wat) but I think this covers a good portion of them.
So go forth! Hate Rose! Just don’t try to justify it with any of the above bullshit.
My trouble with Rose (well, it’s not really trouble as such…) is that these days I tend to see pretty much the whole thing from Jackie’s POV. (But that’s another story. Also I love Jackie.) So, also Rose is perfectly right to head off with the Doctor and only see Jackie now and again- there’s also that scene in Doomsday, where Rose leaves Jackie on the other side of the wall, knowing she’ll never see her again. (Without even an I love you!) And Pete won’t let Jackie go back, and there’s Rose seemingly mostly okay with this, and it’s just…if I was Jackie in Doomsday, and I never got my daughter back, I’d hate her. I’d love her too, of course…but I’d hate her.
I’d say that scene is more the Doctor’s fault (and to a degree Pete’s as well) than Rose’s. Rose is in the middle of explaining to Jackie why she wants to stay with the Doctor even though she thinks her mum should go to the other universe, and the Doctor (and Pete) cut off the conversation by taking them all to the alternate universe. Rose responds immediately to get back where she wants to be because she’s not taking that shit again (“you’re not doing that to me again”, she says, as she presses the button, obviously meaning POTW) and knows she doesn’t have time to kill. It’s a shitty situation, but I don’t think Rose deserves blame here. The Doctor forced Rose’s hand and Pete not letting Jackie go back is on Pete’s shoulders, not Rose’s.
Rose seems okay with it in for the two minutes it stands probably because she’s relieved to have just made her wishes understood, finally, and also because there isn’t really time to process things. Before Rose even has a chance to really register “I’ll never see my mother again”, she’s stuck in a parallel universe thinking “I’ll never see the Doctor again”.
It’s a sad hypothetical situation, but it’s not Rose’s fault nor is it Rose’s obligation to give up a life she loves to stay with her mother.
I never really warmed to alt!Pete and that’s probably why. I wonder if he ever developed a real relationship with Rose and I reckon he probably didn’t…
But if I was Jackie I’d have fought tooth and nail to get back to my daughter, even if Pete was holding me back. Which is why I think it was a MASSIVE missed opportunity to have Pete go back for Rose and save her life, instead of Jackie…who was the one who vowed she’d protect both Rose and the Doctor until the end of her life.
There are probably lots of valid reasons to hate, or at least dislike, Rose Tyler. One of the most valid is probably “I just don’t like her”, because personal preference is a thing that exists and saying “I just don’t like her” doesn’t contain any bullshit sexist or classist reasons for it. So it’s not that everyone needs to love Rose. If you just don’t enjoy her storyline or her personality, hey, it happens.
There are, however, a lot of really invalid reasons to hate her. Such as:
- “She’s useless!” OR sometimes “She was great in s1 but useless in s2!” No she’s not. There are about 30 episodes to contradict this. And her entire series 2 character arc is about her becoming more of a competent hero, not less of one.
- “She’s the reason the universes were collapsing in Journey’s End!” No she’s not. This is never suggested in the entire s4 arc. You’re selectively taking bits and pieces of the text while ignoring others in order to paint Rose as the villain.
- “Her clothes are ugly and I hate her stupid horse face.” Fuck you.
- “She isn’t good enough for the Doctor! It’s unrealistic that the Doctor would love an uneducated shop girl.” Sorry, this right here is some classist bullshit. Love isn’t based on someone’s CV. Being working class and not having a high level of formal education does not mean Rose is unworthy of love, or (perhaps more specifically) unworthy of love from her “betters”. What the fuck? Stop.
- “She was obsessed with the Doctor.” This argument is invalid for a couple of reasons. First, it’s intentionally downplaying/demonizing Rose’s love as “obsession” — and also implying that it was entirely one-sided, as if Rose is latched onto his leg with her claws while he tries to shake her off. That’s a blatant misreading of the text that also has sexist undertones, because if Rose was “obsessed” with the Doctor, the Doctor was sure as fuck even more “obsessed” with Rose. What makes her “obsessed”, anyway? Wanting to be with him? By this same reasoning, pretty much all the companions are “obsessed” with him. Donna wanted to be with him forever, too.
- “She was so mean to poor Mickey! He was such a good boyfriend and she treated him so badly!” It’s really the second part of this that kills it for me. Yes, Rose’s behaviour towards Mickey tended towards selfishness. But you know what? So did his. The Mickey/Rose relationship was dysfunctional and doomed from the off, even if it had once been a sweet and simple teenage thing. Mickey, to put it simply, is not the “perfect boyfriend” that fandom often wants to believe he was. Mickey was selfish, too, desperately clinging to his relationship with Rose and trying to hold her back even after it became clear that it wasn’t working and clear that she wanted someone else. Should Rose have ended it sooner, cleaner? Sure. But Mickey could have, as well. Mickey even starts dating another woman, but is eager to “get a hotel room” as soon as Rose comes home. PERFECT BOYFRIEND, right?But I think the most telling moment in the Mickey/Rose relationship is in the Slitheen two-parter in s1. Mickey is invited to come along on the TARDIS with them, and he turns it down because he’s scared — and then he has the Doctor lie so that he can save face, and continues to guilt-trip Rose over her decision to keep travelling. Sorry, Mickey, but no. If Mickey were really the perfect boyfriend everyone says he is, he could have either a) gone along for at least one trip to see if he could be with Rose in the new direction her life was taking, or b) declined by admitting it wasn’t a lifestyle for him and wishing Rose luck. Instead he chose to lie and guilt-trip her out of pursuing something she’d come to love. That’s pretty shitty.
So no, Rose didn’t treat him well. But Mickey is a grown-ass man guilty of many of the same things, so hold them both accountable. Painting Rose as the villain and Mickey as the helpless innocent is, frankly, kind of sexist.
- “She’s mean to her mum! How could she leave her alone like that?” Okay, I love Jackie, and definitely one of the intentional tragedies in DW are characters like Jackie, “the ones who get left behind”. Jackie is lonely and that’s sad. But Rose is nineteen years old; she’s growing up and she’s going to leave home. And it’s not as though Rose disappears with the Doctor, never to return. The first 12-month gap is a mistake (and exclusively the Doctor’s fault), and from then on Jackie knows where her daughter is, can call her, and the Doctor and Rose come around for visits sometimes. It’s a bit like taking a job on the other side of the world — is it sad they don’t get to see each other as often anymore? Sure. But Rose has no obligation to stay at home in a life she doesn’t enjoy just because her mother wants her to. Which leads me to…
- “She had everything she wanted in Doomsday and she still wasn’t happy with it!” No, she had everything you think she should’ve wanted in Doomsday. Rose NEVER says she’d be happy in that alternate universe with her mum and dad, or that this is what she wants. She says literally the exact opposite in “Doomsday”, telling Jackie that she wants Jackie and Pete to be happy together but that her life is with the Doctor now. Deciding that because she has money, parents and an ex-boyfriend she should just sit back and be satisfied with something she did not want in the first place is gross, and hey, also kind of sexist. (Are you seeing the pattern here?) This argument says that Rose should just settle for losing the man and the lifestyle she loves because, hey, she has her parents and money and an ex-boyfriend. What? No. No one gets to decide what’s “good enough” for Rose except Rose, and she very plainly did not want the ending she gets in “Doomsday”.
I could go on, honestly, because there are so many (“Rose is the reason Ten went crazy in Waters of Mars!” …wat) but I think this covers a good portion of them.
So go forth! Hate Rose! Just don’t try to justify it with any of the above bullshit.
My trouble with Rose (well, it’s not really trouble as such…) is that these days I tend to see pretty much the whole thing from Jackie’s POV. (But that’s another story. Also I love Jackie.) So, although Rose is perfectly right to head off with the Doctor and only see Jackie now and again- there’s also that scene in Doomsday, where Rose leaves Jackie on the other side of the wall, knowing she’ll never see her again. (Without even an I love you!) And Pete won’t let Jackie go back, and there’s Rose seemingly mostly okay with this, and it’s just…if I was Jackie in Doomsday, and I never got my daughter back, I’d hate her. I’d love her too, of course…but I’d hate her.
Mother is the name for God…
Row 1: Nancy (The Empty Child), Mickey’s grandma Rita-Ann (Rise Of The Cybermen), Elton’s mother (Love And Monsters), Trish (Fear Her), Roseanna (Vampires Of Venice), Ambrose (The Hungry Earth)
Row 2: Jackie, Amy & baby Melody, Madge, Francine, Sylvia
Row 3: Rose, River, Lily & Cyril, Martha, Donna
Row 4: Sarah Jane & Luke, Tabitha (Amy’s mother), Adelaide, the Doctor’s mother (Yep, turns out that was supposed to be her.)
Rose/Mels fic. Finally finished. Called ‘What That Does To A Girl’. Eeee!
Doctor Who fic: What That Does To A Girl
Title: What That Does To A Girl
Author:
Rating: PG-13
Characters: Rose, Mels, mentions of others
Pairing: Rose/Mels
Summary: After a bad breakup, Rose meets a girl called Mels on a London bus. The rest of the evening is theirs…
A/N: The details of Rose’s previous romantic history are from the Doctor Who 2005 annual, and so are the details of the trip to France. Enjoy, everyone!
Dear DW fans who hate Rose because of “how she treated Mickey”…
…you’re jerks, and misogynistic ones at that. I wrote this for something else, but I wanted to post it here because I feel like I need to get this out. I’ve always been sort of mystified by people who say they hateRose Tyler solely because of how she supposedly treated Mickey Smith badly in series 1. And I’m here to call bullshit on it now.
I just rewatched s1 the other day, and… I came out of it wanting to kick Mickey in the balls for the way he treated Rose. He was possessive, he objectified her, he was an ass to her on many occasions, especially when it came to the Doctor — he was jealous and selfish, and he clearly didn’t care about what Rose wanted in any case, only what he did. If he’d had his way, knowing that she had the option to explore all of time and space and have fantastic adventures and feel important like she never had in her ordinary life, he would have chosen to keep her there, to tie her down to being a miserable, bored shop-girl living on a council estate and forever wondering what it would have been like if she’d gone with the Doctor. And he continues to feel this way, obviously, even when she comes back in, for example, “Boomtown” and is clearly loving her life and the adventures she’s having, and so on. He acts like he’s owed something by her, even after he tells her he’s gotten a new girlfriend — he (and the fandom!) still act like Rose is being unreasonable in not wanting to go back to a hotel and have sex with him ten minutes after he says he’s got a new girlfriend.
And well, that’s not exactly the only indicator of how little he cares for Rose as a person— it was evident from day one, when Rose has just been seconds away from being killed in the explosion of her workplace, but all Mickey can think of is that there’s a game on at the pub. He doesn’t give a shit what she wants out of her own life, only that she stays with him and will have sex with him whenever he wants (in the first episode she wants to use his computer and he says “any excuse to get you into the bedroom,” and in “Boomtown” his first thought is to get a hotel room, presumably to have sex). He doesn’t care that she wants to see the universe, he cares that she’s traveling with a man and enjoys his company. He doesn’t care that she’s loving what she’s doing and is happy, he cares that she’s not going right back to regular life with him. It’s selfish.
Which isn’t to say, of course, that Rose shouldn’t have broken it off with him much, much sooner than she did. She absolutely should have. She was not really nice to Mickey. But I can’t find it in myself to blame her. There were things she should have done and didn’t, but that doesn’t make the way Mickey treats her or acts about her okay, either. People act like he’s some goddamned martyr, when really he’s an immature, possessive man who doesn’t want Rose to achieve more than he has because it makes him feel small — that’s the vibe I got, anyway. He doesn’t want her traveling time and space — he doesn’t even want to hear about it when she’s home, because he doesn’t like it that she’s off, shock and horror, doing anything without him.
(Tangentially, I wonder how many of the fans who hate Rose for how badly she treated Mickey are the same ones who profess, anon or even openly elsewhere, that if the Doctor came for them they’d go immediately, without even saying goodbye?)
And that has been your daily scheduled rant. You all may be shocked and awed by the fact that I didn’t even address the sexist double-standard involved in supporting Mickey and condemning Rose — I wanted to, but I simply don’t have the time or energy right now. Feel free to fill in the blanks. Cheers!
I love Mickey, but I have come to realise that he was a jerk in Rose, yes. Even Noel Clarke is on record saying he didn’t like his character in Rose.
But, I do think that the ‘any excuse to get you into the bedroom’ line was just boyfriend-girlfriend banter. (I’m more concerned about the ‘don’t read my emails’ line. Unless he was just signed up to something embarrassing, like a Barry Manilow fan club or something.) In Boomtown there are awkward lines like ‘I don’t mind you hanging out with big-ears up there’, which implies she needs his permission to hang out with other men…but…he doesn’t actually suggest they go to a hotel until Rose has admitted she wanted to see him, and there’s nothing else going on that demands Rose’s attention. He also says at some point ‘I’m not going to ask you to leave him because I know that’s not fair’ re: Rose and the Doctor.
And in Parting Of The Ways, even though Rose is understandably stressed, I do think it was a bit harsh to say ‘there’s nothing left for me here…nothing’. Still, I can forgive her that because of the situation. And I think Mickey does show maturity in TPOTW, because when Rose says ‘Maybe we should just lock the door and walk away’ (which I always thought was her quietly testing Mickey) he responds with ‘I’m not having you give up now’, and he helps her pull open the TARDIS when he could have easily walked away.
Okay, basically, the problems with Mickey don’t start til Season Two, because he was generally treated badly by the writers, and that translated into him being treated badly by the Doctor and Rose. I’m far more cross about how Nine and Ten treated Mickey than how Rose treated him. Rose and Mickey were two people ill-suited to each other who grew apart (with immaturity and cross words on both sides, as in most break-ups), but Nine quite frequently bullied Mickey for no reason. And Ten often treated him as a spare part, indicating that he was Rose’s pet (‘I let you keep Mickey!’) which, when you consider the racial dynamics at play there, was kinda…problematic.
And although Mickey can be possessive, there is an in-canon reason for this: everyone he’s ever loved has left him. His father abandoned the family, his mother isn’t around (I’m curious to know exactly what happened to Mickey’s mother), his grandmother died in a household accident he obviously feels incredibly guilty about… the mere fact that his father did a runner would be enough to push anyone into ‘please don’t leave me’ territory.
In conclusion…I’m gonna think on this and come back in fifteen years or so when I’ve formed a coherent opinion. Also, I’m curious to know what the OP thinks of Jackie?
Doctor Who: Racebending (all major New Who characters!)
You may have seen this before, but this is where one picks out actors and actresses of colour to play already established white characters. Here’s my take on New Who. (You’ve seen my picks for Eleven, Amy, Rory and River already, but here they are again!) Also available on Tumblr, as most of my stuff is these days.
Ukweli Roach as Eleven: He has Eleven’s sense of bafflement and wonder down pat, and has already played an old man in a young man’s body (see: Eternal Law)
Sophie Okenodo as River: As we saw in The Beast Below, she is badass and knows her way around a gun.
Antonia Thomas as Amy: Tough, smart, and (let’s face it) beautiful.
Richard Ayoade as Rory: Stop picturing him as Moss for a second, and you’ll realise he can do adorkable very well
Lenny Henry as Nine: Contrary to popular belief, he can act. The Independent said of his Othello: “The frenzy within his imagination explodes into rage and, finally, wretchedness.” Oh, he’d have made a brilliant Nine.
Paterson Joseph as Ten: He can do both drama and comedy, and is mega-charismatic
Nina Toussaint-White as Rose: Remember her as Mels? Oh god, she’d be a perfect Rose.
Meera Syal as Donna: Another fine actress known mostly for comedy. Remember her as Nasreen? She’d be great.
Chiwetel Ejiofor as the Master: Ejiofor in Serenity was BRILLIANT, one of my favourite villains of all time, he was so good. Basically he should play every villain ever.
Michael Obiora as Jack: He was Billy Shipton in Blink- the lovely, flirty Billy. Look! He’s got no shirt on!
Art Malik as Wilf: Internationally famous, great actor.
Marianne Jean-Baptiste: Anyone ever seen her in Secrets And Lies, Mike Leigh’s family drama? I just get the feeling she’d make a really good Jackie.
Kehinde Fadipe as Sally: She was great in Misfits, vunerable and tough all at once.
Daniel Kaluuya as Craig: Have you ever seen Black Mirror? Oh god he is a FABULOUS actor. He could do everything required of Craig, comedy and drama and everything.
Angel Coulby as the TARDIS: She’d be brilliant, nuff said
Gina Torres as Canton: Because she ought to be in EVERYTHING.
Doctor Who AU: Apocalypse–
A gang of survivors make their way across an devastated world. All of them- Rose Tyler, Martha Jones, Donna Noble, Mickey Smith, River Song, and newlyweds Amy and Rory Pond- are slowly running out of hope. Until they meet a stranger called The Doctor.
Gif 1- Donna and Rose observe events
Gif 2- The fire takes Manhattan
Gif 3- Amy and Rory take to the road
Gif 4- The Doctor walks on
Gif 5- The survivors; Martha and Mickey share a look
Gif 6- The Doctor notices Amy’s wedding ring; River runs to an injured (dead?) Doctor
Gif 7- Martha and Amy run
Gif 8- Rory walks through the water; River watches him sadly