mace windu

Some good halloween cosplays I saw online this weekend

(Since there was obviously no Halloween this year.)

gffa:

jedi-order-apologist:

thephilosophersapprentice:

kalinara:

I’m going to change gears from my usual anti-Kylo Ren tirade for this post:

I am really fucking tired of seeing Anakin Skywalker apologists blame Mace Windu, or otherwise imply that Mace Windu deserved his fate, just because he happened to rightfully believe that the man was not emotionally equipped to be a Jedi.

Here is an unpleasant truth for all of us: Mace Windu was right.

Anakin wasn’t equipped to be a Jedi.  He wasn’t equipped to live with Jedi restrictions the way the others were.  He wasn’t equipped to have to deal with political machinations or secret Sith scheming.  He wasn’t equipped to leave a loving mother.  He wasn’t equipped to balance Palpatine’s gaslighting with his Jedi trained perspective and self-awareness.

He wasn’t even equipped to leave the Jedi Order of his own free will and use his training and skills and connections to establish a life that suited him better.

Mace was right to be wary of Anakin.  Because Anakin did end up turning on the Order.  And Mace absolutely did not deserve what happened to him.

Mace Windu did not yank Anakin off of Tatooine while leaving his mother behind.

Mace Windu did not create the culture that raised Jedi from birth, without standard family attachments.  Mace was in fact as much a victim of that culture as Anakin or any other Jedi.

Mace Windu did not create the code or restrictions that forbid Anakin from marrying Padme.

Mace Windu was never cruel to Anakin.  He may have distrusted him or not been as warm as Anakin would have liked, but you know what?  He had no responsibility to do so.  He wasn’t Anakin’s master.  He’s certainly not a brother or father figure to him.  SO WHAT if he distrusted Anakin.  He’s allowed to have a fucking opinion.

Newsflash: in your life, you’re going to meet people who don’t trust you.  You’re going to meet people who dislike you.  You’re going to meet people who don’t know what to do with you.  And guess what?  You get the fuck over it.

There was no indication that Mace Windu was unfair to Anakin.  He opposed Anakin being a master.  Okay.  Anakin was twenty-three years old.  We have never seen a master that age.  Obi-Wan was still a Padawan at that age.  Anakin may have been a war hero, but that doesn’t mean that Mace can’t have legitimate misgivings about Anakin’s emotional readiness for the job.

There is no indication that Mace Windu mistreated Anakin.  If anything, he tried to protect him.  He knew Anakin and Palpatine were friends and he tried to spare Anakin from having to be part of the confrontation.

If you can’t defend Anakin Skywalker’s choices without slamming a man who did nothing to deserve his murder at Anakin’s hands, then you have to wonder how defensible Anakin actually is.

Also I’d like to point out the whole episode where Boba Fett was trying to kill them and Windu spent the whole time being kind and teacher-ly to Anakin and the episode where they were on Ryloth and Windu was a Literal Dad to his clone troopers.

Windu doesn’t deserve to be bashed in fandom. He was wise, and kind, and part of that wisdom and kindness meant he didn’t want to force responsibilities onto someone who obviously was not ready for them.

I disagree with the idea of anyone being a “victim” of Jedi culture, because there’s nothing wrong with their non-tradtional family structure and there’s nothing wrong with forbidding attachment as the Jedi define it (or as Lucas defines it) – but otherwise I strongly agree with this post. Mace Windu (and the rest of the council, but especially Mace) is NOT IN ANY WAY responsible for Anakin’s fall to the dark side. Mace was entirely reasonable in his distrust of Anakin in ROTS, because at that point, Anakin was not very trustworthy. Obi-Wan even tries to point out to Anakin that it looks to the Council that Anakin had pulled strings with the Chancellor to get the position on the Council – even though that’s not what happened, the Council has no way of knowing that, and either way, Anakin didn’t earn the position.

And when Mace says that he doesn’t trust Anakin, he’s specifically referring to Anakin’s assignment to spy on the Chancellor – and given Anakin’s track record of putting personal above duty, it’s entirely justified not to trust that he can handle being in that position. That’s why Mace says that Anakin will have earned his trust by reporting that the Chancellor was a Sith – because it would mean that Anakin was able to put his duty to the Jedi and the good of the Republic above his friendship with the Chancellor.

Also, Anakin had been actively betraying his vows to the Order for the past three years – not that the Jedi knew he was married, but it absolutely affected Anakin’s behavior. Would it be wrong to be distrustful of a spouse that’s been closed off and secretive because they’re cheating on you (whether you know they’re cheating or not)? Because that’s essentially what Anakin has been doing, since Jedi are effectively married to the Order itself.

Point is, he is NOT trustworthy, he does not deserve trust simply because he is powerful and has been an effective and successful general in warfare. He does not deserve Mastery when he has not mastered himself. And Mace did not wrong him by denying him that (not to mention Mace didn’t make that decision by himself – nor the decision in TPM to reject Anakin for training, which was also reasonable but that’s another discussion) – especially since Anakin is what? 22? Would you trust someone at the age of someone fresh out of college that threw a tantrum because they didn’t get a leadership position in a well-established, prestigious organization?

#mace windu#discussion#in defense of the jedi#anakin skywalker#i have sympathy for anakin because he was groomed and manipulated by palpatine#and didn’t have a stable foundation during the critical early childhood years on account of being enslaved#but ultimately he’s still responsible for his own terrible choices#which is the point – he’s an archetypal tragic hero#who are VERY SPECIFICALLY done in by their own flaws and bad choices#NOT because they were ‘forced’ into it by people being ‘mean’ to them#and in the end i have infinitely more sympathy for the people anakin has hurt than for anakin himself#and that includes mace windu#who is a good person who did his best#and has always been one of my favorites ( @jedi-order-apologist)

gffa:

DAVE FILONI:  “You see Mace Windu’s the guy that tells little Anakin, no, he will not be trained.  You cut to Anakin and he’s like, ‘What??’  There’s this look on Anakin’s face like, ‘I’m gonna remember that, you’re a negative, why are you doing that?’
      “So you have to look at it, the Jedi are–though they mean really well for Anakin–they’re always telling him ‘no’.  They’re always saying ‘no, you’ll be expelled, you’ll have to leave the Jedi Order’.  And then Palpatine is always playing off that saying ‘they need you far more than you know, I think you’re the most powerful Jedi ever’.
      “So you have this one group that’s trying to train you to be this balanced person that has considerable skill, but they’re always limiting you, [Anakin] saying, ‘It’s all Obi-Wan’s fault, he’s holding me back’.  We have to assume that Obi-Wan’s doing these things for Anakin that are making him frustrated.
      “And then you’ve got Palpatine saying ‘no, you’re the best! you’re beyond the best! they need you, they don’t know it, I know it’.”

RFR INTERVIEWER:  “So, it’s the guy telling you the truth and the guy telling you what you want to hear.”

DAVE FILONI:  “Right.  So when you get to that point, all these things I’m talking about get you to that point where Palpatine’s on the ground and Mace Windu has a lightsaber at his throat and he’s saying ’he’s the traitor’.
      “So Anakin’s there and he’s choosing the guy that’s always told him ‘no’–that, while he respects him and [Mace’s] not a mentor, but he’s a fellow Jedi–and the father figure [of Palpatine] who holds the key possibly to immortality and you saving this person you love in Padme.”

silvergryphon:

kalinara:

I’m going to change gears from my usual anti-Kylo Ren tirade for this post:

I am really fucking tired of seeing Anakin Skywalker apologists blame Mace Windu, or otherwise imply that Mace Windu deserved his fate, just because he happened to rightfully believe that the man was not emotionally equipped to be a Jedi.

Here is an unpleasant truth for all of us: Mace Windu was right.

Anakin wasn’t equipped to be a Jedi.  He wasn’t equipped to live with Jedi restrictions the way the others were.  He wasn’t equipped to have to deal with political machinations or secret Sith scheming.  He wasn’t equipped to leave a loving mother.  He wasn’t equipped to balance Palpatine’s gaslighting with his Jedi trained perspective and self-awareness.

He wasn’t even equipped to leave the Jedi Order of his own free will and use his training and skills and connections to establish a life that suited him better.

Mace was right to be wary of Anakin.  Because Anakin did end up turning on the Order.  And Mace absolutely did not deserve what happened to him.

Mace Windu did not yank Anakin off of Tatooine while leaving his mother behind.

Mace Windu did not create the culture that raised Jedi from birth, without standard family attachments.  Mace was in fact as much a victim of that culture as Anakin or any other Jedi.

Mace Windu did not create the code or restrictions that forbid Anakin from marrying Padme.

Mace Windu was never cruel to Anakin.  He may have distrusted him or not been as warm as Anakin would have liked, but you know what?  He had no responsibility to do so.  He wasn’t Anakin’s master.  He’s certainly not a brother or father figure to him.  SO WHAT if he distrusted Anakin.  He’s allowed to have a fucking opinion.

Newsflash: in your life, you’re going to meet people who don’t trust you.  You’re going to meet people who dislike you.  You’re going to meet people who don’t know what to do with you.  And guess what?  You get the fuck over it.

There was no indication that Mace Windu was unfair to Anakin.  He opposed Anakin being a master.  Okay.  Anakin was twenty-three years old.  We have never seen a master that age.  Obi-Wan was still a Padawan at that age.  Anakin may have been a war hero, but that doesn’t mean that Mace can’t have legitimate misgivings about Anakin’s emotional readiness for the job.

There is no indication that Mace Windu mistreated Anakin.  If anything, he tried to protect him.  He knew Anakin and Palpatine were friends and he tried to spare Anakin from having to be part of the confrontation.

If you can’t defend Anakin Skywalker’s choices without slamming a man who did nothing to deserve his murder at Anakin’s hands, then you have to wonder how defensible Anakin actually is.

Mace Windu: Hardass, not asshole.

There’s a good post I’ve seen going round talking about how in the prequel trilogy it’s everyone’s good qualities rather than their bad qualities which doom them, and I think it’s Mace’s pragmatism (not in any sense a character flaw) which ultimately dooms him.

breakanyballerinasheart:

Life tests you! Every day it brings you new chances for triumph or defeat. And if you pass the test, it doesn’t make you a Jedi. It makes you human.