raimispiderman:
ot3:
part of the fun of the does it like women polls is that everyone sets their own criteria for what that question actually means to them. and i think it says a lot about how devalued womens’ narratives are that “are the incredibly few women in this narrative written with a baseline level of competence” and “does this narrative avoid being explicitly hostile to its female characters” are enough for people to view something as being actively pro women. its the media equivalent of that phenomenon where men view women as having spoken an equal amount when they have in fact spoken far far less. imagine if we used criteria this nothingburger for gauging literally anything else. youre like ‘does this piece of work like it’s characters’ and someone else says ‘yeah they have character arcs and everything. the narrative doesnt even punish them for existing.’ you just have to be like. okay but is it good though. are those character arcs meaningful? compelling? well executed? thematically resonant? the bar is low people it is loooooow
#also leads to stories that have really interesting and well-written female characters being judged as bad#just because bad things happen to the women in them
never forgiving that blog’s voters for how they judged mary jane watson
Thoughts will not leave me alone – I do take does-it-hate-women and similar blogs/articles/etc rather seriously, to my own detriment. But I think “Is it feminist? Does it hate women?” are questions that answer nothing. Because what’s feminist? What’s hate? What’s it?
What’s feminist? I’m reminded of this very good post which points out that feminism means different things to different people depending on how you were socialized, and what traumas you’ve suffered. One woman might appreciate a fictional rape victim being shown to have a complete messy breakdown after their assault while a different woman might appreciate that a fictional rape victim immediately turns into a stone cold badass and kills her rapist. It depends if you want realism or a power fantasy. Both women are right.
What’s hate? Steven Moffat always got a lot of flak for his female characters (all of whom I love) but has never been accused of harming a real woman. Neil Gaiman was lauded as a feminist, a lover of women and advocate of girls and we now know he’s a rapist. It’s clear from his actions that Joss Whedon hates women, but did he create Buffy Summers or did Sarah Michelle Gellar? Does the love Gellar put in negate the hate Whedon put in?
What’s it? Let’s say the It is a long-running franchise like Batman or Doctor Who that’s been going since the 60s or earlier. Does it hate women? It’s had hundreds of writers, directors and producers, statistics are not on my side here, some of them definitely hated women. You can always point to one panel or scene from 1969 and say, “This is proof that this franchise hates women” but then a female writer or showrunner shows up and attempts to put all that in the past. Do we forgive? Is the It absolved?
Can a TV show be considered feminist if even one woman was harmed in all 60+ years of it, even if the perpetrator is dead?
There’s more! There was a debate once as to whether Pacific Rim was feminist – Travis Beacham and Guillermo del Toro definitely seemed to love Mako Mori, but she’s the only woman in the film with lines. Then the franchise went to different people and Mako was fridged. When Black Panther came out it was lauded as the MCU’s most feminist film, but Disney are involved, and Disney have mistreated countless real women. But on the other hand, how much creative control do Disney have over the franchises they suck up like leeches? I love the show Gravity Falls and don’t consider it Disney, just something Disney bought, but Disney was dictating what made it into the show while at the same time women who worked at Disneyland were sleeping in their cars.
The subject of this very blog, the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy, was directed by Sam Raimi, and Sam Raimi has in the past donated money to the Republican party. What 16-year-old me spent on my movie ticket for Spider-Man 2, some of that could well have gone on preventing teengers just like me from getting abortions.
If I (a woman) love it, is it feminist?
I really want answers.