The waters
amy pond
Snippets from The Brilliant Book
I love these books!
A bit I found interesting from the notes on A Christmas Carol- “There are 4000 passengers and crew on the ship, plus Amy and Rory. But 4003 are reported as facing death. Hmmm, you don’t suppose one
of them might have been, say, pregnant…”
Karen’s interview is interesting. She says that Amy’s leaving the TARDIS “is a interesting choice for Amy to make at this point…although it kind of isn’t her choice”. On Rory vs the Doctor, she says Amy loves Rory “in that way, and loves the Doctor in a totally different way”, and that the question of which of them is more important to her is harder, as Amy idolises the Doctor “more than anyone, even Rory”. She
says that she knows what’s happening next series and she’s very happy about it, and that when Amy does leave properly she wants her to leave for good, and she’d be fine if Amy was killed off, even. (eek)
Here’s a deleted scene between the Doctor and Rory in Day Of The Moon:
RORY: I don’t remember it all the time. It’s like there’s a door in my head. I can keep it shut.
THE DOCTOR: But he’s still in there- Rory the Roman?
RORY: I’m a nurse. I like being a nurse. Door stays shut.
THE DOCTOR: If I ever needed you to- maybe not today, but maybe sometime soon- could you open that door again?
RORY: No.
THE DOCTOR: If Amy needed you to?
RORY: If Amy did, of course.
Neil Gaiman originally wanted House to “ooze out protoplasmic tentacles that shoot up from the ground” but the budget wouldn’t have it. Also, according to his original opening for The Doctor’s Wife (as retold in comic form!) Rory is a Beatles fan.
The Corsair was killed in his ninth body- his fifth and seventh were female.
Rory is actually referred to as “Time’s New Roman”, which I thought was just a Tumblr meme.
Arthur thinks that Amy and Rory would still jump aboard the TARDIS when the Doctor returns, even after settling down. “Both he and Amy are just waiting for the Doctor to call.” And also: “In a way, the Doctor is messing up their lives, but there’s an addictive quality to it.”
Karen would jump right into the TARDIS if it came to her house, Arthur doesn’t know.
Alex told Arthur about River’s true identity before Steven Moffat could- he wrangled it out of her and was very pleased with himself.
The monster at the end of The Rebel Flesh (Jennymonster) was inspired by…………..Madonna. Yep.
There was a glorious and expensive-sounding ‘Doctor’s Happy Memories’ montage cut from The Rebel Flesh- it featured Susan, Sarah, Jo, Madam de Pompadour and Mickey, among others.
On whether there might one day be a spinoff of Madame Vastra and Jenny, Moffat says “There are plans. They’re over here in this safe marked TOP SECRET”. Holy cow! It might actually happen!
AND we learn how Vastra and Jenny met- Jenny was a match girl, and Vastra saved her from being dragged off by a gang. She “smelt more pleasant than any other ape I have encountered”, according to Vastra’s letters.
“You called the robot Rory. You didn’t call it the Doctor, or Biggles, our favourite cat, or Sexy Mr Jennings the hot, hot art teacher. You called it Rory. Because we always need a Rory by our side.” I don’t remember this line from The Girl Who Waited. But I like it!
Toby Whithouse says that the Doctor called Amy Williams because “he still can’t quite believe she’s grown up and isn’t a little girl anymore…he calls her Amy Williams, he finally uses her proper married name.” Lots of people didn’t like the Amy Williams thing, but heck, maybe Toby Whithouse wasn’t aware that Williams actually isn’t Amy’s married name. Meh. (Also, Rory is referred to as “Rory Pond” in
most of the book)
Could-have-been titles for Closing Time: Everything Must Go, The Last Adventure, Cybermen And A Baby.
Moffat has an ‘end game’ planned for Amy, Rory and River. And the fiftith anniversary is going to be MASSIVE.
A few quick Who thoughts
The God Complex! There’s a great deal going on there and while I’m not sure all of it makes sense, at least it’s sort of trying to make sense. But, about the relationship between Amy and the Doctor, I think the Doctor’s definition of faith is the key: “They all believe there’s something guiding them, about to save them. ” The Doctor ‘s been guiding Amy, and once he lets her go, she’s free to be her own guide and make her own way. I think on the whole I like Amy’s exit, now I’ve thought about it – the thing that did it for me was ‘The Girl Who Is Tired Of Waiting’. Once the Doctor dropped her off, she stopped being The Girl Who Waited and became even more of her own person- still a best friend of the Doctor, but also with a career and house and husband and (very unorthodox) child. She’s not just His Companion anymore. Well, that’s my take on it anyway.
Course, I really want her to still be around for a good few years, making Martha-like appearances along with River and Rory…
Anyway! I have also updated the Representation charts, the notes on Andy and Rorie, and (I keep forgetting to post these) Series One screencaps! (They’re above the Series Five ones…)
Doctor Who: The Wedding Of River Song
The good:
-Rory being awesome and self-sacrificing as always
-Amy and Rory still being very much the Ponds rather than the Williamses
-The fact that I can write it into my head that Amy and Rory, once they’ve returned home, still see River quite often- when Rory arrived, he didn’t seem particularly suprised to see her, so it’s pretty easy to justify
-That Amy actually does feel anger over not getting to raise her child
-The mentions of Rose and Jack (okay, Rose not so much…I wish they’d reference, I dunno, Mickey once in a while…)
-The prettiness of alta-London
-Seeing Charles Dickens again
-Amy kills Madam Kovarian in cold blood. I want this to be brought up again so badly- the Doctor being angry and disappointed, Amy feeling the guilt- but I suspect it’ll never be mentioned again. Sigh.
-The Doctor forgives River. Very him.
The bad:
-I like River a little less now. :( I still like her, but the ‘MY PAIN IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PAIN OF HUNDREDS OF OTHERS!’ got to me. At least the Doctor called her on it, quite harshly in fact.
-Sod it, I knew it would be the Tessalecta as soon as it was mentioned in the Previously. It feels a bit like a cop-out. :(
-Wait, what? What happened to the whole universe wanting to help the Doctor out?
The wonderful:
The tribute to the Brig. Oh, that was wonderful. :( I don’t care about the bad stuff in this episode when we got that as well.
Questions still unanswered:
-Why blow up the TARDIS?
-What’s going on with Rory’s deaths? Even the Silence mentioned it.
-Why did River remember the Doctor when Amy didn’t in The Big Bang? Steven Moffat promised this would be answered, and it wasn’t!
-Why exactly did the Silence need River in particular when anyone could have been inside the suit? (Okay, this one is more me being picky…)
-Why did Silence briefly fall in Vampires Of Venice?
I’m pretty sure this whole thing is building towards the revealing of the Doctor’s name- maybe next season?- and I dunno if I like that idea. Also, I’m pretty sure we’ll see Amy, Rory and River again next series? I hope so very very much, I want to see them be a family…
Genderswapped Amy and Rory
So, there is often talk about Amy and Rory and their marriage and gender roles. But what if you switched the genders without changing any of the tropes, or any other genders? The Doctor/Amy dynamic would be different, Amy would be a bisexual man, lines that we laugh at now we might not laugh at then…things would be…different. Well, let’s see.
(I had to make a concession only twice, for the pregnancy in Amy’s Choice and for the Lone Centurion thing. But everything else is virtually the same.)
For the purposes of this trip into alternate-reality lane, Amy is Andy and Rory is Rorie. And that’s really all you gotta know! Everyone else remains the same genders. I’m just gonna go through the episodes and state my thoughts in bullet-points, just as if they were the actually aired episodes. Hold tight, there’s discussiony stuff at the end!
The Eleventh Hour
-A male kissogram! That’s quite cool.
-Andy is clearly attracted to the Doctor despite being in a relationship (it’s not very nice to refer to your girlfriend as ‘sort of your girlfriend’ in front of them…). Hooray for a bisexual full-time companion, though!
The Beast Below
-Ah, a man running from the prospect of settling down. Haven’t seen that before. Wait, yes we have.
Victory Of The Daleks
-“Ever fancied someone you shouldn’t?” Clearly referring to the Doctor/Andy relationship. Maybe they shouldn’t have written it quite that way, as it could be taken as saying men shouldn’t fancy other men?
The Time Of Angels/Flesh and Stone
-Regarding Andy/River…it’s nice to see a male/female relationship where there’s no hint of sex. She seems almost to mother him.
-Aha, Andy tries to seduce the Doctor. Thought that was coming. This isn’t going to be a story where the bisexual man has to get all the Gay out of his system before marrying a woman, is it? Cos that doesn’t seem right. As it is, the Doctor turns him down, reminding him he’s gonna get married. I gotta say I’m not loving Andy in this scene. Cheating isn’t nice.
The Vampires Of Venice
-Now we meet Rorie again. Man, it wasn’t very nice of the Doctor to humiliate her on her hen night like that, was it? Even if it was played for laughs.
-Rorie’s generally quite mature about her husband-to-be cheating on her. Angry at first and then trying to talk it over. She clearly knew Andy was bisexual before she agreed to marry him (a long obsession/adoration of the Doctor might have clued her in that she was competing for his affections…) so her anger isn’t directed at him fancying a man, but that he tried to cheat on her. Sorry, but Andy isn’t coming off well in this episode! Rorie looks at the psychic paper to find “This says I’m your jester”, and Andy wants Rorie to pose as his sister…
-Andy finds himself in the position of damsel-in-distress. He kicks Roseanna in order to escape from her. Justified self-defense? I think in this case it is, but it’s uncomfortable viewing seeing a man kick a woman…
-Rorie picks up a broom to defend her fiance. And fights a man who’s physically stronger than her in every way. This makes for uncomfortable viewing too, seeing a vampire jump on a woman like that…
-Andy tells Rorie “Stay. I want you to stay.” But why can’t he show a little more love for the woman he’s going to marry, or tell her he loves her? I know the Doctor’s abandonment screwed him up, but this just makes me feel bad for Rorie.
Andy’s Choice
-Rorie still has a career- she’s a doctor now! -and Andy doesn’t seem to have one. Interesting role-reversal…
-Okay, this episode could be construed as Andy, clearly bisexual, choosing between ‘gay’ (a life with the Doctor) or ‘straight’ (a life with Rorie) and choosing straight. That’s a bit awkward.
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
-I would express my annoyance that yet again in a story a woman dies merely to provide a man with more character development, but since it was purposely done to not give Andy character development, I can forgive it…
-“Other way, idiot!” yells Andy to Rorie. Okay, that’s just not on.
Vincent and the Doctor
-Now there’s really not much female input into this show. It seems like females only exist to get killed by monsters!
-Nice to see Andy flirting with Vincent and Vincent liking him in return. Hey, this makes Vincent van Gogh bisexual too! Well, history never said he wasn’t…
The Lodger
-Darnit, now there’s only one woman in this whole episode!
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
-Rorie is reborn as a kick-ass Roman gladiator*! Who saves Andy! Awesome!
-She then waits two thousand years to make sure he’s safe. This seems an overly submissive act, I’ve gotta say. History’s full of women waiting for (sometimes undeserving) menfolk.
-Andy flirts with the Doctor and offers to kiss him…at his wedding. Rorie seems not to mind, but I’m not liking this, not at all.
-She also doesn’t mind being referred to as Mrs Pond, although it’s never been said she’ll take that name.
A Christmas Carol
-Andy is patronised by the Doctor, but then turns and patronises Rorie in return.
The Impossible Astronaut/Day Of The Moon
-Andy, crying over the Doctor, asks Rorie what to do- a sign that Rorie is the rock in his life- also it’s good to see men crying rather than women
-It’s telling that even after the wedding, Rorie isn’t sure whether Andy loves her or the Doctor more. Well, he was flirting with the Doctor at the wedding…can you blame her?
-He does reassure her…but he also tells her to stop being stupid. She answers with “I’m never, ever going to stop being stupid!”, and it’s all done in a jokey way, but still…I don’t like it. All this name-calling on his part.
The Curse Of The Black Spot
-Rorie is bewitched by the female siren- Andy is jealous.
-The depth of Andy’s love for his wife is shown again once more when she is on the point of death. He’s warm and tender to her there.
-It worries me a bit that Rorie ‘dies’ so much. Is it just to give the male characters something to react to? Isn’t Rorie good enough of a character on her own without having to die to give the male characters more development?
The Doctor’s Wife
-One of Andy’s fears is his wife…old and hating him. Hmmm. Did they have to make her old? That just makes it seem like he fears his wife getting old.
-Rorie gets to be ‘the pretty one’. But she’s more than just pretty- here she shows herself as a compassionate nurse. Can’t she be more than ‘pretty’?
The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People
-Rorie allies herself with another woman, but is betrayed by her. Andy seems slightly jealous of this friendship/attraction. Is Rorie maybe bisexual too? I like that this show has people having different sexualities and not even necessarily being all straight or all gay.
-Wow, that ending…I never would’ve thought that…
A Good Man Goes To War
-…they’d have a man be pregnant! In a different body, kind of, but…still. I’m glad we didn’t see, um, any details of the birth…I doubt the kids would be pleased…
-Rorie gets back into the gladiator get-up and faces down a fleet of Cybermen- this girl is the bomb
-Why is Rorie’s last name that of a ‘geography teacher’? What’s wrong with geography teachers anyway?
-Rorie is uncomfortable with the Doctor and Andy hugging too long. Is this homophobic? There’s no hint of sexual tension between them now, really.
-The woman fights while the man stays with the child, I like that a lot.
Let’s Kill Hitler
-The Doctor asks Rorie for permission to hug Andy. I dunno what to think about that. Something friends do or something more sinister?
-Andy seems to have bullied Rorie a bit as a child. Seeing a boy bully a girl, there’s something a bit uncomfortable there.
-Rorie gets to punch Hitler! How awesome is that?
Night Terrors
-Andy charges, headstrong, into the dolls- Rorie doesn’t get to do much, even less than Andy
The Boy Who Waited
-It’s a bit awkward, again, seeing a man sort-of threaten his wife with a sword….
-Rorie is given the choice of which husband to save. She would have chosen both if the Doctor hadn’t ruled that out as an option. She does say of Old Andy “You’re old enough to be my father” but she seems to see them as mostly the same person. Did the Doctor take her choice away as well as Andy’s, by not telling her two Andys couldn’t inhabit the TARDIS? Either way, he treated them both badly here.
The God Complex
-Rorie saying, however jokingly, that Andy hits her? THAT IS NOT COOL. And referring to it after she’s been knocked unconcious, too! What the heck is wrong with this show?
-The Doctor refers to Andy using Rorie’s last name. A sign that he’s grown up? A sign that a part of his identity now belongs to Rorie? A ‘look how much you’ve grown’ moment? All? None?
-It’s cool to see a girl (Rorie) who likes cars.
Closing Time
-Andy has a high paying job; Rorie doesn’t. Perhaps she’s still a nurse?
The Wedding Of River Song
-Once more Rorie takes on the role of a soldier…but this makes her, again, completely submissive to Andy. She even calls him ‘sir’.
-Andy and River get a father/daughter talk while Rorie doesn’t get much of a look in.
*Apparently you did get female Roman gladiators
So, questions posed by all this…
-Why is the thought of Andy hitting Rorie disturbing, but not Amy hitting Rory? Because woman are physically weaker, because of the history? I don’t know.
-Would this vision of things be homophobic, a man attracted to another man but deciding he’s in love with a woman instead?
-If this was done right (i.e. without the name-calling and domestic violence…) would it be worse than what we’ve got, or better?
(Don’t look at me, I don’t know!)
Doctor Who: The God Complex
Episode: B+, story arc: F
“If you see Melody, tell her to visit her mum.” OH FER PITY’S SAKE ALL THAT GAME CHANGING CLIFFHANGER STUFF AND THAT. WAS. IT? After the loveliness of A Good Man Goes To War and Amy and Rory’s obvious love for their kid, they really have just…mostly forgotten her? Just a quick mention and that’s it? Oh, this story arc has driven me insane, insane I tell you. All that and nothing.
Amy’s leaving scene was nice- although why didn’t the Doctor say goodbye to Rory- but I think both of them will be back for the finale anyway. I’m expecting it, otherwise I’d have more to say about that.
It’s not fair, I really liked this episode and then I started thinking about it and coming up with things I don’t like. Why does Rory have no faith for the Minotaur to hold onto when we saw in the pirate episode that he puts all his faith in Amy? Why introduce a cool Muslim girl who’d be an awesome new companion and then kill her? And why why why why have they not cared about River/Melody for so long? AAARGH I AM ANNOYED. But I still love these characters, and on the whole this episode was okay, it’s just I really can’t get over the mess they made of this series arc…
Doctor Who: The Girl Who Waited
I love you, Ponds!
One of this year’s arcs seems to be very much, “The Doctor screws up his companions by making them like him.” We get Amy alone and building her own screwdriver, and Rory crying in anguish “You’re making me you…”
I love Amy/Rory so very much- of all the couples in all the TV shows I’ve seen, they’re the ones I’ve connected to most. Maybe because there was nothing Epic Destiny about them- they were childhood friends, grew up, got married, and the Doctor was the one providing all the Epicness. Or something.
Amy hating the Doctor is something new- but even then it was a hate that died off pretty quickly, she still remembered the fez and confessed her ‘sonic probe’ was really a screwdriver. But the Doctor is a cold-hearted git shutting the door on Old!Amy, and being a big nasty liar in general. Sometimes I do wish the whole ‘the Doctor screws up everybody!’ thing would be toned down a little. Especially since Amy and Rory have every reason to really hate him at this point, and I’m surprised Amy’s yet to throw another ‘Then what is the point of you?’ into his face…
Anyway. I loved Amy so much in this- she’s resourceful, clever, snarky, and then becomes totally grown-up and totally broken. And all done so well by Karen, damn, she’s awesome. The make-up job was fabulous too.
ALSO! Anyone notice how in The Doctor’s Wife, Old!Rory lunges at Amy and screams “You left me! How could you do that? How could you leave me?!!!!” and here Old!Amy does the exact same thing to Rory. Now I like to think that House was really showing Amy what her own future would be like…
Doctor Who fanfic: they fill you with the faults they had
Title: they fill you with the faults they had
Author: sarah531
Rating: R for general dark themes
Spoilers: Is canon-compatible with Let’s Kill Hitler– set in the gap between it and A Good Man Goes To War
Characters: Amy, Rory, Tabitha Pond, Augustus Pond
Warnings: Contains talk of losing a baby, and implied mental health issues, lying, grief and depression- it may be triggering to some.
Summary: Amy and Rory, still recoiling from their loss, go to visit Amy’s parents.
Something I’m worried about…
spoilersandhandcuffs:
Is Amy just going to accept that her baby is gone? Just be all like ‘oh, I raised her after all?
I hope not. That wouldn’t be right. I hope they find baby Melody.
I wish to second this emotion. Get it right, Moffat, I beg of you!
Doctor Who: Let’s Kill Hitler
Would you like some WHAT to go with that THE HELL?
I like it as a stand-alone sort of episode, I swear! It had Rory punching Hitler and Amy taking command and the Doctor in a top hat and so much awesome. And a ginger Terminator. And just forty-five minutes of sheer bonkersness. Buuuuuuuuuut.
River’s still Amy and Rory’s daughter and she’s still out there- Rory’s never even got to properly hold her. They had a kid and now she’s for all intents and purposes gone…and everyone seems okay with this. But the very real baby Melody is still out there somewhere in time with Madame Kovarian, why aren’t her parents ripping space apart to find her, crossed timelines be damned? Haven’t we already seen her alone and afraid in a creepy orphanage? What? What? WHAAAAAAT.
And they may have known her during her childhood, known her quite well, but that’s not the same- looking after your wayward best friend isn’t the same as raising a child, they’ll never have seen her first steps or first words or anything. And I dunno, this is sort of going WRONG WRONG WRONG in my head. Cos to just be okay with all that…
Um.
But I did like many things- I loved loved loved little Rory and Amelia, I loved that Hitler was actually barely in the episode, I loved the Doctor’s guilt over Rose, Martha, Donna and now Amy, I loved Rory’s little nod when River asks if the Doctor is worth it, I loved a lot about this episode. But I can’t turn off the little voice that says I may not like this series, cos they’re doing it wrong…