Genderswapped Amy and Rory
So, there is often talk about Amy and Rory and their marriage and gender roles. But what if you switched the genders without changing any of the tropes, or any other genders? The Doctor/Amy dynamic would be different, Amy would be a bisexual man, lines that we laugh at now we might not laugh at then…things would be…different. Well, let’s see.
(I had to make a concession only twice, for the pregnancy in Amy’s Choice and for the Lone Centurion thing. But everything else is virtually the same.)
For the purposes of this trip into alternate-reality lane, Amy is Andy and Rory is Rorie. And that’s really all you gotta know! Everyone else remains the same genders. I’m just gonna go through the episodes and state my thoughts in bullet-points, just as if they were the actually aired episodes. Hold tight, there’s discussiony stuff at the end!
The Eleventh Hour
-A male kissogram! That’s quite cool.
-Andy is clearly attracted to the Doctor despite being in a relationship (it’s not very nice to refer to your girlfriend as ‘sort of your girlfriend’ in front of them…). Hooray for a bisexual full-time companion, though!
The Beast Below
-Ah, a man running from the prospect of settling down. Haven’t seen that before. Wait, yes we have.
Victory Of The Daleks
-“Ever fancied someone you shouldn’t?” Clearly referring to the Doctor/Andy relationship. Maybe they shouldn’t have written it quite that way, as it could be taken as saying men shouldn’t fancy other men?
The Time Of Angels/Flesh and Stone
-Regarding Andy/River…it’s nice to see a male/female relationship where there’s no hint of sex. She seems almost to mother him.
-Aha, Andy tries to seduce the Doctor. Thought that was coming. This isn’t going to be a story where the bisexual man has to get all the Gay out of his system before marrying a woman, is it? Cos that doesn’t seem right. As it is, the Doctor turns him down, reminding him he’s gonna get married. I gotta say I’m not loving Andy in this scene. Cheating isn’t nice.
The Vampires Of Venice
-Now we meet Rorie again. Man, it wasn’t very nice of the Doctor to humiliate her on her hen night like that, was it? Even if it was played for laughs.
-Rorie’s generally quite mature about her husband-to-be cheating on her. Angry at first and then trying to talk it over. She clearly knew Andy was bisexual before she agreed to marry him (a long obsession/adoration of the Doctor might have clued her in that she was competing for his affections…) so her anger isn’t directed at him fancying a man, but that he tried to cheat on her. Sorry, but Andy isn’t coming off well in this episode! Rorie looks at the psychic paper to find “This says I’m your jester”, and Andy wants Rorie to pose as his sister…
-Andy finds himself in the position of damsel-in-distress. He kicks Roseanna in order to escape from her. Justified self-defense? I think in this case it is, but it’s uncomfortable viewing seeing a man kick a woman…
-Rorie picks up a broom to defend her fiance. And fights a man who’s physically stronger than her in every way. This makes for uncomfortable viewing too, seeing a vampire jump on a woman like that…
-Andy tells Rorie “Stay. I want you to stay.” But why can’t he show a little more love for the woman he’s going to marry, or tell her he loves her? I know the Doctor’s abandonment screwed him up, but this just makes me feel bad for Rorie.
Andy’s Choice
-Rorie still has a career- she’s a doctor now! -and Andy doesn’t seem to have one. Interesting role-reversal…
-Okay, this episode could be construed as Andy, clearly bisexual, choosing between ‘gay’ (a life with the Doctor) or ‘straight’ (a life with Rorie) and choosing straight. That’s a bit awkward.
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
-I would express my annoyance that yet again in a story a woman dies merely to provide a man with more character development, but since it was purposely done to not give Andy character development, I can forgive it…
-“Other way, idiot!” yells Andy to Rorie. Okay, that’s just not on.
Vincent and the Doctor
-Now there’s really not much female input into this show. It seems like females only exist to get killed by monsters!
-Nice to see Andy flirting with Vincent and Vincent liking him in return. Hey, this makes Vincent van Gogh bisexual too! Well, history never said he wasn’t…
The Lodger
-Darnit, now there’s only one woman in this whole episode!
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
-Rorie is reborn as a kick-ass Roman gladiator*! Who saves Andy! Awesome!
-She then waits two thousand years to make sure he’s safe. This seems an overly submissive act, I’ve gotta say. History’s full of women waiting for (sometimes undeserving) menfolk.
-Andy flirts with the Doctor and offers to kiss him…at his wedding. Rorie seems not to mind, but I’m not liking this, not at all.
-She also doesn’t mind being referred to as Mrs Pond, although it’s never been said she’ll take that name.
A Christmas Carol
-Andy is patronised by the Doctor, but then turns and patronises Rorie in return.
The Impossible Astronaut/Day Of The Moon
-Andy, crying over the Doctor, asks Rorie what to do- a sign that Rorie is the rock in his life- also it’s good to see men crying rather than women
-It’s telling that even after the wedding, Rorie isn’t sure whether Andy loves her or the Doctor more. Well, he was flirting with the Doctor at the wedding…can you blame her?
-He does reassure her…but he also tells her to stop being stupid. She answers with “I’m never, ever going to stop being stupid!”, and it’s all done in a jokey way, but still…I don’t like it. All this name-calling on his part.
The Curse Of The Black Spot
-Rorie is bewitched by the female siren- Andy is jealous.
-The depth of Andy’s love for his wife is shown again once more when she is on the point of death. He’s warm and tender to her there.
-It worries me a bit that Rorie ‘dies’ so much. Is it just to give the male characters something to react to? Isn’t Rorie good enough of a character on her own without having to die to give the male characters more development?
The Doctor’s Wife
-One of Andy’s fears is his wife…old and hating him. Hmmm. Did they have to make her old? That just makes it seem like he fears his wife getting old.
-Rorie gets to be ‘the pretty one’. But she’s more than just pretty- here she shows herself as a compassionate nurse. Can’t she be more than ‘pretty’?
The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People
-Rorie allies herself with another woman, but is betrayed by her. Andy seems slightly jealous of this friendship/attraction. Is Rorie maybe bisexual too? I like that this show has people having different sexualities and not even necessarily being all straight or all gay.
-Wow, that ending…I never would’ve thought that…
A Good Man Goes To War
-…they’d have a man be pregnant! In a different body, kind of, but…still. I’m glad we didn’t see, um, any details of the birth…I doubt the kids would be pleased…
-Rorie gets back into the gladiator get-up and faces down a fleet of Cybermen- this girl is the bomb
-Why is Rorie’s last name that of a ‘geography teacher’? What’s wrong with geography teachers anyway?
-Rorie is uncomfortable with the Doctor and Andy hugging too long. Is this homophobic? There’s no hint of sexual tension between them now, really.
-The woman fights while the man stays with the child, I like that a lot.
Let’s Kill Hitler
-The Doctor asks Rorie for permission to hug Andy. I dunno what to think about that. Something friends do or something more sinister?
-Andy seems to have bullied Rorie a bit as a child. Seeing a boy bully a girl, there’s something a bit uncomfortable there.
-Rorie gets to punch Hitler! How awesome is that?
Night Terrors
-Andy charges, headstrong, into the dolls- Rorie doesn’t get to do much, even less than Andy
The Boy Who Waited
-It’s a bit awkward, again, seeing a man sort-of threaten his wife with a sword….
-Rorie is given the choice of which husband to save. She would have chosen both if the Doctor hadn’t ruled that out as an option. She does say of Old Andy “You’re old enough to be my father” but she seems to see them as mostly the same person. Did the Doctor take her choice away as well as Andy’s, by not telling her two Andys couldn’t inhabit the TARDIS? Either way, he treated them both badly here.
The God Complex
-Rorie saying, however jokingly, that Andy hits her? THAT IS NOT COOL. And referring to it after she’s been knocked unconcious, too! What the heck is wrong with this show?
-The Doctor refers to Andy using Rorie’s last name. A sign that he’s grown up? A sign that a part of his identity now belongs to Rorie? A ‘look how much you’ve grown’ moment? All? None?
-It’s cool to see a girl (Rorie) who likes cars.
Closing Time
-Andy has a high paying job; Rorie doesn’t. Perhaps she’s still a nurse?
The Wedding Of River Song
-Once more Rorie takes on the role of a soldier…but this makes her, again, completely submissive to Andy. She even calls him ‘sir’.
-Andy and River get a father/daughter talk while Rorie doesn’t get much of a look in.
*Apparently you did get female Roman gladiators
So, questions posed by all this…
-Why is the thought of Andy hitting Rorie disturbing, but not Amy hitting Rory? Because woman are physically weaker, because of the history? I don’t know.
-Would this vision of things be homophobic, a man attracted to another man but deciding he’s in love with a woman instead?
-If this was done right (i.e. without the name-calling and domestic violence…) would it be worse than what we’ve got, or better?
(Don’t look at me, I don’t know!)
September 25, 2011 @ 8:18 pm
Interesting thought experiment!
September 25, 2011 @ 8:18 pm
Thanks! :D
September 25, 2011 @ 8:26 pm
Very interesting, and I’m glad you raised the question. For whatever it’s worth, I see Amy’s early fear of committing to Rory, her preference to run away and have adventures with the Doctor, and the way that she treats Rory even after she commits to him, as a bit of gender-reversal to start with, which is part of what makes the genderswap awkward. The pregnancy storyline was almost a surrogacy story to start with, because even though it was Amy’s body that was pregnant, she didn’t have to experience the pregnancy at all. I still don’t know how it would work genderswapped, but it’s fun to think about. You left in a reference to “Amos” – was that the original male-Amy name which was later changed to “Andy”? Hmmmm ….
September 25, 2011 @ 9:33 pm
Oops! Yeah, I changed it at the last minute because Andy was a more up-to-date name. :D I agree about the series five gender-reversal. That’s a reason why I liked them in the first place. And I do think Amy’s pregnancy thing was…well, it was a bit unnecessary, but I guess it was the only way they could do a pregnant companion? If they had to have one…
September 25, 2011 @ 9:17 pm
-Rorie saying, however jokingly, that Andy hits her? THAT IS NOT COOL. And referring to it after she’s been knocked unconcious, too! What the heck is wrong with this show? I’m glad someone said something about that bit in the God Complex. Whichever way you slice it, that was kind of messed up.
September 25, 2011 @ 9:35 pm
Thanks. I did wonder about it but no-one really picked up on it? On the other hand, it doesn’t disturb me nearly as much as my genderswapped version does, but I don’t actually know why that is…
September 25, 2011 @ 9:24 pm
>>Why is the thought of Andy hitting Rorie disturbing, but not Amy hitting Rory? Exactly. This has bothered me since the Comic Relief thingy where she gives him a smack. Woman-slaps-guy-how-funny seems to be a trope in Moff’s work that makes me cringe a little. I wish he’d stop.
September 25, 2011 @ 9:38 pm
I’m still working on my feelings about the slapping thing…it doesn’t bug me anywhere near as much as the alternative, but it does annoy me. :(
September 25, 2011 @ 9:43 pm
I keep thinking about it and arguing with myself that it’s “not that bad”, which I guess must be cultural conditioning at work. If the genders were swapped in that instance it would be completely horrifying. But I *have* to think about it in role-reversal to be horrified. Which is just…yeah. It’s violence, either way, and it’s not right. :/ “Violence against dudes is okay” is really really programmed into us, I suppose.
September 27, 2011 @ 2:56 am
I totally don’t even know how I got here, so pardon me for jumping in- but! Violence against women is an institution that’s been around for as long as – well, civilization? It’s a form of oppression, and while men do get hurt at the hands of women it’s not the same systemic problem. So yeah, it’s not cool to go “Men getting beaten up is funny,” bur it’s sort of comparing apples and oranges.
September 27, 2011 @ 2:58 am
And also, the whole slapping thing irritates me too. It’s *not* cute, and genderswapping the people involved is a good way of showing that.
September 25, 2011 @ 9:55 pm
Is it partly because guys tend to hit *each other* a lot? At least, most guys that I know express affection partly by roughing each other around a little (arm slapping, noogies, whatever). So it’s not weird to see a guy treated like that, but girls don’t do it as much, so it would be weird to see that (plus the history)?
September 26, 2011 @ 2:48 am
(Sorry for the random butting in – this issue – and this marvellous post – is fascinating and something that I’ve given a lot of thought to over the last few years.) I find it disturbing too if I think too long about it – but it’s hardly just a Moff thing; RTD set up the trend. Women slapping and mistreating men has been pretty prevalent in the new series as a whole: Jackie and Nine and Ten, Ten and Francine Jones, Ten and Donna (repeatedly!) and then minor little scenes – Rose telling Ten delightedly regarding Mickey and his grandmother that ‘she used to slap him!’. It’s something that to me seems like a relatively recent cultural phenomena – men slapping women is portrayed as utterly vile (which it is), but women slapping men is hilarious and merely affirms their strength of character. The same for goes for belittlement and humiliation (Rose and Mickey*, Amy and Rory, and to some extent River and the Doctor – which also has an element of female to male violence and abuse especially if we consider the events of LKH). I assume it’s based the idea of reversal of the previous cultural gender ‘norms’ of a still male-dominated society and differences in body strength and perception – women are perceived as far less threatening than men, in general. It’s a strange trend that I really don’t know what to think about. I generally love the pairings involved (I liked the DoctorDonna friendship, and I ship Amy/Rory and 11/River very happily) and I can’t seem to stop myself from laughing when the slap/bullying is played for laughs, but I keep wondering why it is that to portray a female character as strong they feel the need to also portray them as borderline abusive to their male partners. :/ *To be fair Ten also spends much of his time belittling and humiliating Mickey so that might be less or a gender more of a status type thing. Ditto 11 mocking Rory’s nose and ponytail. *has delurked for too long and re-submerges self in the safe, murky depths or anonymity*
September 26, 2011 @ 3:06 am
Oh I don’t think it’s just a “Moff thing” but RTD didn’t exactly set it up; it’s occurred in Moff’s writing since his very first series, Press Gang, in which an ENTIRE EPISODE is based around one of the female characters slapping a male character on TV and how *funny* everyone thinks this is. I’m a lunatic raving Moffat fan, but this is one area where I seriously cringe.
September 26, 2011 @ 10:14 pm
and then minor little scenes – Rose telling Ten delightedly regarding Mickey and his grandmother that ‘she used to slap him!’. This makes me think of the debate regarding smacking children- some people think it’s fine and some people think it’s borderline abuse (or actual abuse, in some cases). I was smacked on the arse several times as a kid, and I don’t hold any resentment towards my parents for it, but I can’t help but remember that not too long ago it was considered fine and dandy to hit your wife… Maybe once upon a time the girl-slapping-boy joke was only funny because it really was more often the other way round? :( (You’re not butting in! Please continue! :D)
September 25, 2011 @ 10:10 pm
Excellent little meta you’ve got here! Much to consider. Moff is great, but he has his fail to be sure. There are great ways to see this via your experiment. Thanks!
September 26, 2011 @ 10:15 pm
Thank you! They all have their fail, yet I love the show anyway…:D
September 26, 2011 @ 11:45 pm
Oh me too, very much so. I was very annoyed at this past week’s racefail with both black characters being the ones Cybered. Yet…and yet…I’ll so be back next week, with delight.
September 29, 2011 @ 9:14 pm
Oh, that infuriated me. I wonder why no-one pointed it out?
September 25, 2011 @ 11:25 pm
This is very interesting, I could see a lot of the reactions here being voiced if this was how it was done. I think it’s all about how you view things, most of this didn’t bother me at all but I could see why it would bother others. I’m a gay man so the bixsexual companion stuff is very interesting to me and while “Andy” picking a women over a man wouldn’t bother me I know parts of fandom that would be very, very angry about how homophobic the BBC/Moff/etc are when really it’s not. A bixsexual man can be make the choice to be with a women and be happy, I’d still read the slash fiction of course ;) I mention being a man because I fully admit that I won’t be able to understand some of the sexist issues the same way a women could but I can understand play fighting. There was a lot of play fighting as I grew up and I think the reason it doesn’t bother me with Andy or Amy is the fact that when play fighting you go out of your way to not hurt the other person. That’s the big difference, no one is trying to hurt anyone or put them down and it’s fun for both people involved. Also if anyone of either gender was trying to kill me I’d kick them to try and get away and not feel bad about it. That goes double if it’s a big fish monster. So I guess with me it’s about the intentions and reactions of the people involved. If everyone involved is happy with the situation and no one is being hurt then I’m fine with it.
September 26, 2011 @ 10:24 pm
I’m a gay man so the bixsexual companion stuff is very interesting to me and while “Andy” picking a women over a man wouldn’t bother me I know parts of fandom that would be very, very angry about how homophobic the BBC/Moff/etc are when really it’s not. A bixsexual man can be make the choice to be with a women and be happy, I’d still read the slash fiction of course ;) I think as long as he was portrayed as being bisexual rather than gay, people would be okay with it? I dunno…some of it would have problematic aspects, but on the other hand some bisexual folk in real life eventually end up with a person of the opposite gender. So…maybe the problem is that there aren’t many gay relationships on TV to start with (except in Torchwood. ;)) and it would be nice if DW brought one to the forefront…I can see people being furious if the ‘Doctor/Andy’ relationship was snatched away and replaced with a straight couple. Not even because of the story or characters, just…because. Also if anyone of either gender was trying to kill me I’d kick them to try and get away and not feel bad about it. That goes double if it’s a big fish monster. Yeah, I think that one is actually justified self-defense. :D Except then, if it really had been ‘Andy’ in that position, people would question why Moffat hadn’t written Roseanna as a man and thus avoided any male-on-female violence at all…
September 27, 2011 @ 3:08 am
So totally not your point I know but my brain is not getting past the idea of Roseanna being written as a man at the moment. I freaking adored Helen McCrory as her, I don’t think I would have responded as strongly to anyone else male or female in that role.
September 29, 2011 @ 9:17 pm
How about Jason Issacs? ;) They have the same level of Death Eater evil!
September 25, 2011 @ 11:30 pm
Interesting exercise. Even before I read any of your synopsises (synopsii?) my first thought was ” oh, the Stupid Face remark is really not going to go over well at all!” I’m glad to see you addressed the name-calling. Although she’s gotten much better, I still hold back in embracing Amy as a character because of how badly she treats Rory. It’s interesting, I’ve never faulted Rory for loving her despite the abuse, but if their genders were reversed I’d be highly irritated with Rorie for putting up with that treatment. Hmmmmm. I need to examine my motivations and values here. Re: Closing Time – we do not know what sort od job Rory/Rorie has. Nothing in the scene indicates it. Rather than say that “Rorie doesn’t” I’d complain that the show didn’t feel Rorie was important enough to indicate how she was doing: only Andy’s success mattered. I’d also point out that Andy still seems to mentally abuse Rorie and take her for granted. Because they are walking through a store with Rorie lugging 12 shopping bags and Andy strolling along not carrying a thing.
September 26, 2011 @ 1:59 am
Re: Closing Time – we do not know what sort od job Rory/Rorie has. Wouldn’t Rory/Rorie’s job still be a nurse? Not quite a perfume empire leader but the character’s never show an interest in anything that high profile.
September 26, 2011 @ 10:27 pm
I still hold back in embracing Amy as a character because of how badly she treats Rory. I love Amy, but the ‘Other way, idiot!’ and the flirting at the wedding rather get to me. Rather than say that “Rorie doesn’t” I’d complain that the show didn’t feel Rorie was important enough to indicate how she was doing: only Andy’s success mattered. I’d also point out that Andy still seems to mentally abuse Rorie and take her for granted. Because they are walking through a store with Rorie lugging 12 shopping bags and Andy strolling along not carrying a thing. Ah, that is a good point! I gotta admit, I didn’t notice the shopping bags at first. But if the roles were reversed and Rorie was carrying a bunch of bags, would we all be thinking ‘Typical stereotype- the man’s rich and famous now, so his wife has gone out to spend all his money.”?
September 26, 2011 @ 9:59 am
Doctor Who isn’t entirely void of males toyingly calling females stupid face at least. Matt Smith has teased Karen like this himself, though she definitely doesn’t take on the submissive accepting role that a Rorie would have. “I just know her as ‘Stupid Face Karen’. Men love her, don’t they? But she’s just so ridiculous.”
September 26, 2011 @ 10:28 pm
That’s a good point, and a good real life example. Hmmm…I’ll have to think about that!
February 18, 2012 @ 1:08 am
The way I see it, it kinda bugs me that however this relationship is portrayed it reflects badly on women. Amy gets much hate for her bashing on Rory (which is kinda fair, but, still, it’s sad that she’s so hated. We already have lots of hate towards women in fandom). And Rorie would get some degree of pity and would be horribly mistreated on the show in your genderswapped version. Plus the hate she would get for “being stupid and sticking around her abuser”. And the hate for ‘victimize herself’ and be ‘a Mary Sue’, that someone already mentioned. I do think, to be fair, that Andy would get his fair share of hate. The thing is: men are not the traditional victim, so when he stays with his abuser because he just loves her beyond everything, people tend to feel sympathy towards him. He’s the ‘perfect guy’. Women on the other hand are most often victims so, taking this in account, Rorie would get hate and people would comment something along the lines: should have been ‘more aware’ and ‘love/respect herself. She should have more self respect and stop herself from being abused, by leaving the abuser – if she does not leave him, she deserves to be punished bercause she knows what she’s getting into. Her love for Andy above all would be viewed as ‘sick’. Which, tbh, I do think the relationship kinda is. [I’m sorry if my writing is not that good, I’m not a native english speaker. I hope I do not offend anyone.]
February 18, 2012 @ 5:33 pm
Thank you for this! Loads of stuff to think about… Amy gets much hate for her bashing on Rory (which is kinda fair, but, still, it’s sad that she’s so hated. We already have lots of hate towards women in fandom). To be fair, she does seem to get a lot less hate than say, Martha, when it comes to the mainstream media at least. She tends to come near the top in ‘best companion’ polls, like this one. As for fandom…I dunno really. I haven’t seen much hate towards her, but maybe I’m looking in the wrong places. I do think, to be fair, that Andy would get his fair share of hate. If the joke about Amy hitting Rory was genderswapped, I do sincerely hope Andy would get hate! But, because Amy is a woman and Rory is a man and the hitting joke was played for laughs…I don’t hate it. But I’m having difficulty sussing out why. Because Rory as a man is stronger than Amy? Because it was a joke? Her love for Andy above all would be viewed as ‘sick’. Which, tbh, I do think the relationship kinda is. Andy/Rorie or Amy/Rory? I think if Andy/Rorie was done right, without any name-calling or violence, I’d quite like it…but as a straight gender swap it doesn’t work. Thanks for commenting! And your English is fine. :D
March 3, 2012 @ 5:41 am
I’m not going to lie, I would have loved a Andy and Rorie. The dynamic seems really fascinating, and it twists the plot enough that I think would have been great. This little break-down of yours is wonderful, and I find myself wanting more. You hit on a lot of the same issues I’ve had with Amy from the beginning. The disregard she seems to show for Rory, to the point that any affection she shows for him almost comes off out-of-character to me, irritates me. It seems that several people are bothered by Rory’s jealousy of the Doctor, but don’t consider that he has likely grown up hearing about this Perfect Man of Amy’s and is now faced with his fiance literally running away with him the night before their wedding. I find Amy’s adoration of the Doctor excusable, but her inappropriate handling of Rory less-forgivable. You’ve highlighted the same issues I had here in this post, and I find myself reassured that they’ve held up against an gender-swap and not turned out to be stereotypes or shallow complaints. Maybe that’s petty of me, but I like the fact that I’m not the only one who sees some of these things. Like how the way Amy treats Rory is kinda unfair whether or not it’s guy-on-girl or girl-on-guy. Interesting that everything seems more unforgivable when it’s Andy treating Rorie unfairly, but it’s somehow okay when Amy is less-than-kind to Rory. I’m sorry, this probably isn’t well-constructed, but I just–I had to say something, y’know? Thanks so much for this, it was a fascinating read regardless of my resulting word-vomit!