snape

morethanprinceofcats:

somethinglikecats:

morethanprinceofcats:

tw: abuse mention

I was just talking to somebody about Severus Snape and I realized one of the biggest issues I have with how his story is written is that Snape survived an abusive household and went on to perpetuate abuse (and abuse dynamics on different scales which is what I would consider the anti-Muggle genocidal bigotry he supported), which should either be acknowledge in text as such or overcome. But what JKR actually does is say he is forgiven for his own abusive behavior because he loved Lily (in a way that is itself… really, really fucking hazardous? I’m not going to address the continuation of the abuse legacy in the way Dumbledore treats him, but dear god).  When she does this she fails to hold him accountable for years of child abuse and also portrays his “redemptive” love as pure and healthy and not itself really dangerous and self-centered in the worst way, all of which she does in a way that ignores and even overwrites the fact that he is this way because of the abuse cycles he lived through and perpetuated.

You say, “This behavior of his was okay” and now he is not responsible for it and neither are the people who were responsible for that.  It is just an entire chain of abuse apologism.

Actually, in general, I think that is the way JKR addresses all abuse in her books and that’s the reason I don’t like HP anymore.

I understand your point but Snape isn’t forgiven because he loved Lily, he’s forgiven because he collaborated with Dumbledore and played a significant role in Voldemort’s defeat and died doing that. Whether Snape’s redemption arc was sufficient is certainly a matter of debate but it’s a lot more complex than “he loved Lily”.

I get what you mean, but the books frame his redemption arc as such:

– Snape looks shady for numerous books, Harry always thinks he’s the Bad Guy, and he’s not. Harry eventually is told by Dumbledore that while Snape used to indeed work for Voldemort, he has absolute, ironclad proof that his turn to the good side is sincere.

– Snape appears to murder Dumbledore.  Everyone asks Harry how in the fuck Dumbledore trusted him and Harry’s like “Dumbledore swore he felt really bad.” and everyone is like “WHAT??? THAT’S THE REASON???”.  Explicitly, nobody can possibly believe Snape was anything but a mole for Voldemort all these years because no one can believe that Snape “felt really bad”. (I don’t have physical copies of these books anymore so I can’t go digging for any of the actual dialogue, I’m sorry.)

– Finally, Snape dies while an undercover agent for Voldemort, and his dying wish is to give Harry his memories so that Harry will know his story, and to look into his eyes, which are a reminder that Harry is Lily’s son.  Suddenly, it makes sense that Snape genuinely turned against Voldemort out of remorse – the woman he loved died, and his own actions brought her death.  I don’t think that Snape is forgiven for the fact that he was cool with James and baby Harry dying so long as he could have Lily afterward, I don’t remember how explicitly that’s addressed but I feel like I remember Dumbledore being disgusted with him (Deathly Hallows is the book I’ve read the least).  But what I do know is that knowing that because he loved his mother, his turn to the Order was sincere, Harry forgives him for everything else he’s done enough to name a child after him.

And I have a problem with that?? Snape IS redeemed by love.  “How could Dumbledore have ever trusted Snape?!” IS a major plot point from the end of HBP to the moment we learn his reason in DH, and “He was in love with Lily” is the reason for that trust.  Lily is – her death, his guilt in it – the only reason Snape turned away from the dark side.  His love for her is why he does the things you say redeem him, and I don’t think that they can be compartmentalized.  The revelation that he was in love humanizes and redeems him by confirming he really was a double agent for Dumbledore all along beyond any shadow of a doubt, as well as giving him one of the first solid glances of humanity he’s had in the whole series.  

I’m not coming at this from the perspective of somebody who self-righteously hated Snape for abusing kids for 7 books and was disgusted that that was completely elided in favor of focusing solely on his wartime career as a double agent for the Order of the Phoenix, absolved forever by his love for Lily Evans-Potter.  I actually really liked Snape’s character until Deathly Hallows, at which point I became aware that JKR doesn’t do shades of grey.  I don’t like that that chapter is framed entirely around this all-consuming love in such a way that it overlooks and overrides everything else he’s ever done, and it can’t be divorced from the rest of her series and how she handles love every time it comes up. Love is always a redemptive force, unless it isn’t.  For some reason, love isn’t enough to redeem Merope Gaunt, probably because she’s a rapist and she couldn’t will herself to live through childbirth even though she managed to bring her dying body over to an orphanage to give her son a shot at some kind of a family life.  Love is explicitly the magical crux of the Harry Potter universe??  It is repeatedly held up as the source of the greatest goodness and the most powerful magic, just like the fact that Voldemort apparently cannot love (confirmed, iirc, by JKR to be because he was conceived under a love potion, lmao thanks JKR, I don’t even want to pick apart the gross layers of this) is the source of his evil.  So we get a lot of this nonsense.  The other really offensive version of this is when Narcissa Malfoy lies to Voldemort after learning from Harry Draco is alive, thus the Malfoys evade capture and imprisonment as war criminals for a second time.  There isn’t a real life equivalent of that!  Just because they were held prisoner in their own home didn’t erase that they wanted to commit war crimes and were merely kept from doing so by Voldemort’s anger at them.  

It became apparent to me against the general backdrop of how JKR has framed love for 7 books – as well as how much momentum the “how can we truly know Snape isn’t evil?” question gained over the course of those 7 books – that Snape’s love for Lily was meant to be the deciding factor of his entire life.  It is his motivation – his only motivation – for redemption.  And it seems clear also that he never took that love and felt any empathy for anyone else because of it; loving Lily didn’t prevent him from loathing her son by James, or Hermione Granger, who has a startling lot in common with Lily and whom he PERSONALLY subjected to nasty, nasty bullying.  Yet as soon as it is learned, he is forgiven. He is redeemed by loving Lily, both in the sense that the confirmation of that love is all Harry needs to forgive him and in the sense that he only betrayed Voldemort and came to work unfailingly for Dumbledore for all of those years because of her.  Those other things that make him a complex character – the fact that loving Lily didn’t make him a better person in those other ways, the fact that in so many ways the remorse he felt was separate from the anger and hatred for James Potter such that he continued to inflict pain because of that anger and hatred nearly until he died – are all kind of washed away because love is just so awesome and humanizing I guess!  Look, I get that you can argue that HP is a children’s series, but I think by the time DH ended, we had progressed beyond childish black and white thinking and that we needed the complexity of these situations to be addressed.  I would be fine with the Malfoys getting a lighter sentence and a possibility of parole after their actions (well?? really just Draco and Narcissa’s, Lucius getting off is the main thing i’m mad about) but to be like “yeah they got off, same as last time” was really awful.  Snape has every single thing about him washed away in the wake of this revelation.  He’s almost replaced by an entirely new person by the end.  This great redeemed guy who loved Harry’s mother and carried this secret with him nearly into the grave.  There’s no room for Harry et al to process their feelings about him because his sacrifice is on such a huge scale that it looks more important than him abusing children he had institutional power over.  

If this had been framed differently, I’ve no doubt I would have enfolded it into the complex Snape I already liked (I already kind of had a hunch a Lily crush was in his backstory, but I didn’t expect it to be the childhood friends type of deal that it was), but instead it ended up being a hot mess of abuse apologism Love Is The Best Ever actually kind of revisionist nonsense in keeping with JKR writing a lot of similar nonsense into the last two books and it was the death knell for my enjoyment in the series.  For a long time I just felt… confused, not sure of why I didn’t feel the same way that I did.  But the more I’ve come to understand that I was abused growing up the more clearly I see that JKR has a consistently awful approach to writing abuse that perpetuates abuse culture.  This is more evident in how she writes Snape than in any other character, because she peppers his childhood with instances of abuse to make you sympathise with him a little more, without addressing like, any of the reasons this was a problem or the effects it had on him beyond making him perpetuate abuse when he was in a position to do so – and then NONE of that EVER gets addressed because he loved Lily (and went on to do stuff for the good side that was genuinely brave and risky, yes, i know, I get it! But it doesn’t wipe out the bullying and abuse he committed while teaching!), so Harry forgives him enough to name a child after him.  

tl;dr I take abuse culture and child abuse very seriously, JKR is overrated, the way Snape is framed is more my problem with Snape than his actual actions, and you cannot speak for all Snape fans, but a lot of them are real heels and I’m Over It.

All true (God, do I hate Snape. The Malfoys, too. Why the hell do they get off so easy?!) but I always wonder how much JKR herself being a victim of abuse* ties into it. Because I always feel like that must play a part in what she wrote about Snape, but… I don’t really know how to analyse or make anything coherent out of that.

*in the words of her ex-husband, “I had to drag her out of the house at 5 in the morning, and I admit I slapped her very hard in the street” bloody hell

harry potter books rated by my dislike for snape

philosopher’s stone: what a dick calls on harry just to humiliate and demoralize him tool bag number one 10/10
chamber of secrets: same ol’ same ol’ but points for making fun of gilderoy lockhart 6/10
prizoner of azkaban: wow fuck you snape tried to get remus fired 500/10
goblet of fire: i think harry was too busy fearing for his life to care too much about snape 5/10
order of the phoenix: bitch called lily mudbloog hell nope also the legilimency and the bullying dude you’re an adult get over it 510/10
half-blood prince: yikes 400/10
deathly hallows: i’ll give him a you tried star 8/10

[via jilyseason]

lilyprongspotter:

Honestly one of the most important scenes in the entire Harry Potter series is when nine-year-old Severus Snape uses magic to cause a tree branch to fall on Petunia. Even at nine he had no qualms about hurting people Lily loved. This really serves to underscore the idea that while Snape loved Lily, he was not truly invested in her happiness or well-being because he did not care about the people she loved. At age nine he didn’t care about hurting her sister and at age twenty he didn’t care about the imminent deaths of her husband and infant son. So I will always stand by my opinion that while Snape no doubt loved Lily, it was not a healthy love and he really never deserved to have it reciprocated.

hawkeyehalloween:

kn-rainbowblood:

lupinatic:

mostlyginger:

mostlyginger:

can we just talk about the time that Lupin was recovering from a full moon and Snape taught the DADA class and made all the students write essays on how to kill werewolves for Lupin to read when he got back I hate Snape so much it’s not funny

Lupin gets back and he feels like crap and suddenly his best friend’s son is writing an essay about how to kill him like that is so fucked up

Bear in mind that an ex-Death Eater does this to someone who was in the Order, risked his life fighting against said Death Eaters and lost his best friends to the Death Eater’s genocidal leader, for the sole purpose of screwing him over, and as far as we know he experiences no consequences whatsoever for doing so.

And if that wasn’t enough, he made them write those essays hoping some of them would realize Lupin’s a werewolf. And one did, but Hermione is a fucking DECENT HUMAN BEING and said nothing. Apparently the ‘insufferable know-it-all’ can keep her mouth closed, when it’s for something important. Just like Snape didn’t do at the end of the book.

I’m getting mad, so here’s something I’ve realized while reading The Order of the Phoenix again. (Please keep in mind that my books are in Italian and some concepts might be hard to explain, I apologize for my English mistakes)

In chapter 14, when The Trio talked with Sirius, he said that two years before Dolores Umbridge had written a law against werewolves that made it almost impossible for Lupin to find a job.

Now ask yourself this question. Why two years?

What had happened two years before? During Harry’s third year? Oh, right. The Magical World had discovered that one of Hogwarts’ teachers (someone who was in constant conctat with their children) was a werewolf. Does that ring any bell?

But that’s not all! If we take a look at chapter 15, in the Daily Prophet article we can see a familiar name: Remus Lupin.
In a newspaper. Where everyone can read it. “The werewolf Remus Lupin”. No wonder he couldn’t find a job!
And it’s not the first time the Daily Prophet has written about him, as it’s stated in the article itself. There must have been a huge scandal when it had all come out.

So basically, when Snape decided he couldn’t bear not having what he wanted (for example, SIRIUS BLACK GETTING KISSED BY A DEMENTOR) and spilled the secret, he didn’t only tell the whole school. He didn’t only tell the kids’ parents. The told the whole Magical World.

He told the whole Magical World that a man who had kept his condition secret all his life was a werewolf.

And the Magical World responded with a law against werewolves.

So, basically, Snape didn’t only ruin Remus Lupin’s life. He ruined the life of every single werewolf in the UK.

But, you know. Bravest man I ever knew.

lilsoutherncuss:

mrsmarymorstan:

sadgaywerewolf:

insertdickpunhere:

sadgaywerewolf:

Severus Snape once intended to publicly kill a student’s pet as punishment for getting a potion wrong

Severus Snape, a teacher of children, took a 13 YEAR OLD’S PET and TRIED TO POISON IT and then proceeded to PUNISH THE STUDENT because the pet didn’t die

Severus Snape is a whiny, petty, self-absorbed abusive piece of shit there is no arguement here

I’m not saying this isn’t true, but what book is this in?

Prisoner of Azakaban. During their first potions lesson, Neville misbrews a shrinking solution. As punishment, Snape says he’ll feed Nevill’e incorrect potion to his toad, Trevor, and that the potion will be a poison and kill his pet. 

Hermione helps him correct his potion, and when Trevor doesn’t die, Snape takes 5 points from Hermione

Reminder also that Trevor was a gift to Neville from his Uncle for getting into Hogwarts- a feat none of his family thought possible because he wasn’t “magic enough”.

So to him, Trevor is more than just a pet, he’s a reminder that he is a wizard and that his family are proud of him- and Snape wanted to kill him because he got a potion wrong i.e- because he wasn’t “magic enough”

Severus snape is an irredeemable piece of shit idc what anyone else says the truth is there

coolthingoftheday:

The character of Severus Snape was inspired by J. K. Rowling’s high school chemistry teacher, John Nettleship. When he found out, he was shocked, and said, “I knew I was a strict teacher, but I didn’t know I was that bad.”

(To be fair, J. K. Rowling specified that Snape was actually based on a composite of two or three different people; but she took her main inspiration from him.)

(Source)

I always wonder if this is the reason JKR is generally easier on Snape than the fandom is: not so much out of respect for him but respect for John Nettleship (who is dead now.)

damonchosebonnie:

jk rowling calls draco a bully and shames fans for romanticizing draco when she romanticized severus snape, the grossest and most disgusting character she ever created.

I hesitate to say that I love [Snape]. [Audience member: I do]. You do? This is a very worrying thing.

“It’s fun to write about Snape because he’s a deeply horrible person.

You shouldn’t think [Snape is] too nice.

“Is [Snape] a hero? You see I don’t really see him as a hero. He’s spiteful, he’s a bully”