okay, i think what i’ve been having trouble articulating lately is that lois lane and mary jane watson were fucking formative to me
because they weren’t just ‘super hero girlfriends’ and while wonder woman was amazing and i loved supergirl, i couldn’t picture myself as a super hero, because the…
What the fuck? I think you mean Gwen Stacy. Gwen Stacy loved Peter Parker and MJ loved Spider-Man. MJ did nothing but screw around on Pete. Gwen was loyal, devoted and smart.
Gwen didn’t need to resort to wearing skanky outfits to get Peter’s attention, unlike Mary Jane.
Gwen should be classed with the likes of Lois Lane.
^I’m assuming the above is a joke, because I don’t want to think anyone’s mean enough to see a post about how a character was formative to another person, improved her life even, and then instantly respond with ‘that character you love is a skank’.
I had a sudden realization after watching all the Spiderman movies that starred Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst.. Mary Jane Watson is a slut. I mean like, on Spider 3; when she got all prissy on Peter Parker for doing “their kiss” with some other chick? She did the same with that astronaut dude she was suppose to marry then left at the alter for Parker. Quite an envious bitch. Way to be unconditional. In addition, she flirted with Parker back when she was still in a relationship with Harry Osborn and shit. I did notice how she likes to just dodge the guys in her life around and joggles them as she please. Harry’s dad was totally right about her not being worth his time. Harry did deserve better and he should’ve listened. She makes a classic bitch for breaking such a great friendship apart like that between Harry and Peter. And I never really appreciated her purpose in the movie in the first place, to be honest.
Yes. I’m that affected by this.
I too am affected by this.
Because none of it is true. And one’s worth as a character, one’s worth as a person, is not dictated by how many guys you sleep with. Let’s go through all this:
Mary Jane Watson is a slut.
The Spider-Man movies take place over roughly three years, and in that time MJ has four relationships- Flash, Harry, John and Peter. And you know what? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with trying to find the right guy- nothing wrong with a woman having sex, even! An amazing concept, I know, but true.
I mean like, on Spider 3; when she got all prissy on Peter Parker for doing “their kiss” with some other chick? She did the same with that astronaut dude she was suppose to marry then left at the alter for Parker.
Apart from the fact that Peter was in a relationship with MJ when he kissed Gwen. MJ wasn’t in a relationship with Peter when she kissed John. Doesn’t matter what sort of kiss it was.
In addition, she flirted with Parker back when she was still in a relationship with Harry Osborn and shit.
No she didn’t. She only ever treated Peter like a friend. She kissed Spider-Man, true, and she probably shouldn’t have done that even though she was having doubts about Harry at that point- but one snog in the heat of the moment does not a ‘slut’ make.
Harry’s dad was totally right about her not being worth his time.
Harry’s dad called his own wife, Harry’s mother, a gold-digger! And, you know…implied to Peter that he was going to rape his girlfriend.
So. Yeah.
Harry did deserve better and he should’ve listened.
Well he didn’t think so, since he risked his life to save her and asked her to stay with him when he was dying.
She makes a classic bitch for breaking such a great friendship apart like that between Harry and Peter.
WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT?
Harry and Peter were doing a perfectly good job of breaking their friendship apart in the first place- she didn’t even know what was going on til halfway through the last movie! Then Harry used her as a pawn to get to Peter, she complied because she thought she was saving his life and…that’s pretty much it. She had nothing to do with it, she wanted them to be friends! She probably shouldn’t have kissed Harry, but she was in despair because she thought her life and relationship was falling apart, and she ran away as soon as she realised what she’d done.
Anyway, look at what we know about movie!MJ. Men have let her down all her life. Her father calls her ‘trash’ to her face! Then she goes out with Flash, who’s a bullying jerk, then she goes out with Harry whose father loudly implies in front of everyone that she’s a slut- it’s a miracle she doesn’t have more difficulties with relationships.
But you know what? The films themselves don’t condemn her for any of that. If you go into the Spider-Man films and come out agreeing with the supervillain-style misogyny we’re meant to be repulsed by, something’s gone very wrong somewhere…
In MJ’s case I find the backlash against female characters who are coded as traditionally feminine to be particularly gross since — well, since she’s a favorite character and I’m biased, obviously, but also because Mary Jane struggles in-story against people who objectify her, slut shame her, and make snap judgments about her intelligence, skills, and personal character. Why does she get treated this way? Because she’s a beautiful woman who dares to work in the supposedly frivolous, feminized, and sexualized world of entertainment and fashion, dares to have an active social life with people she may or may not want to have sex with, and not only doesn’t apologize for her choices but actively revels in them.
What makes Mary Jane Watson such a great feminist role model, even if she’s not out there taking down supervillains with a baseball bat (not usually, anyway), and even if she does pose in lingerie for a living on and off, is that she will never apologize for who she is, no matter how many people try and shame her for it. And no matter how many readers sail right past the point.
While cleaning up my meta tag I noticed I’d already written one of the topics on my to-do list as part of a longer conversation, so I decided I’d tweak it a bit and repost solo.
Image from Amazing Spider-Man vol II #45 by J. Michael Straczynski (writer) and John Romita, Jr (pencils).
It’s been more or less confirmed now that The Amazing Spider-Man 2 will use “The Death Of Gwen Stacy” as its storyline, and it has been confirmed that Shailene Woodley is going to play Mary Jane. As is par for the course when a woman is cast in a well-known role, her Tumblr tag and discussion elsewhere is full of “But she’s just not pretty enough!”, as well as what I’m starting to call the “Oh my god, only one woman per franchise!” style of misogyny…
But enough of that. I wonder how they’re going to do it. As a completely wild guess, I’d say Peter will meet MJ first as Harry’s girlfriend, meet Norman through Harry, and be having quite a nice time (sucker!) with his new friends when the inevitable happens. MJ will break up with Harry -although he probably won’t have a drug problem in this one- and go to comfort Peter after Gwen’s death, setting things up for their romance in the second sequel.
I’ll also bet my entire collection of hats that they’ll go the Ultimate Spider-Man route with the Green Goblin and have him just transform into a huge green demon thing, rather than attempting to do something new with a costume that probably won’t ever not look silly on the big screen…
Anyway, poor Gwen- we just met her and there’s already plans for her death. Ironically, the thing that saddens me most about that is the fact that she has a family in this one- a still-living mother and some kid brothers. (Whose addition I really love, incidentally.) They’ll barely be over the death of their father before their sister goes too. I don’t think this is going to be a fun movie!
And, of course, Gwen’s only seventeen in this one. I hope they set the sequel a good few years after the first movie, because I don’t think many people will be able to handle a summer blockbuster centering around the brutal killing of a teenage girl…
(Also on the topic of Gwen’s role in the Spider-Man movies: This.)
Title: The Storyteller Author: sarah531 Rating: PG13 Fandom: Spider-Man, 2002 movieverse / Raimiverse/ whatever you want to call that particular universe Pairings: Peter/Harry, Peter/MJ, Ursula/Peter Summary: Peter’s kidnapped, MJ’s injured, Harry’s dead, and Ursula Ditkovich has mere hours to save half of New York.
AN: This has literally been sitting around in various forms for years. Having unexpectedly found myself back in Spider-fandom, I thought it was high time I finished it…
Title: The Storyteller Author: sarah531 Rating: PG13 Fandom: Spider-Man, 2002 movieverse / Raimiverse/ whatever you want to call that particular universe Pairings: Peter/Harry, Peter/MJ, Ursula/Peter Summary: Peter’s kidnapped, MJ’s injured, Harry’s dead, and Ursula Ditkovich has mere hours to save half of New York.
AN: This has literally been sitting around in various forms for years. Having unexpectedly found myself back in Spider-fandom, I thought it was high time I finished it…
Title: The Storyteller Author: sarah531 Rating: PG13 Fandom: Spider-Man, 2002 movieverse / Raimiverse/ whatever you want to call that particular universe Pairings: Peter/Harry, Peter/MJ, Ursula/Peter Summary: Peter’s kidnapped, MJ’s injured, Harry’s dead, and Ursula Ditkovich has mere hours to save half of New York.
AN: This has literally been sitting around in various forms for years. Having unexpectedly found myself back in Spider-fandom, I thought it was high time I finished it…
Title: The Storyteller Author: sarah531 Rating: PG13 Fandom: Spider-Man, 2002 movieverse / Raimiverse/ whatever you want to call that particular universe Pairings: Peter/Harry, Peter/MJ, Ursula/Peter Summary: Peter’s kidnapped, MJ’s injured, Harry’s dead, and Ursula Ditkovich has mere hours to save half of New York.
AN: This has literally been sitting around in various forms for years. Having unexpectedly found myself back in Spider-fandom, I thought it was high time I finished it…
Title: The Storyteller Author: sarah531 Rating: PG13 Fandom: Spider-Man, 2002 movieverse / Raimiverse/ whatever you want to call that particular universe Pairings: Peter/Harry, Peter/MJ, Ursula/Peter Summary: Peter’s kidnapped, MJ’s injured, Harry’s dead, and Ursula Ditkovich has mere hours to save half of New York.
AN: This has literally been sitting around in various forms for years. Having unexpectedly found myself back in Spider-fandom, I thought it was high time I finished it…
